Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

Good question.  I know the authors who posted here were upset that the individual was personally profiting from the sale of the ARC. 

Since this is a charitable event, I would think it would be alright.  But then I’m not a published author and it’s not my work in question.

I’m interested in following the comments in this topic.

The ARC thing, seriously, is such an overblown issue. I can totally see how, when someone sells an ARC on eBay for significant money, especially if it’s an ARC that the author paid to have bound herself, it can chafe. And it is technically illegal. I’ve made my arguments before about ARC sales in general and how they’re wrong but simply not worth all the knicker-twisting, but in this specific case, Sarah, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. No one’s going to come out after you and you’re giving them away to charity and it’s after the books have been released and if they were my books, you’d have my blessing a thousand times over. Hell, if they were my books, you’d have my blessing before the release. I’d rather the book get into new hands than be thrown away. But that’s just me.

In all honesty, I think it’s a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over a relatively small issue. But good on you for asking. You’re not just a smart bitch, but a considerate one at that. Big love to you, punkin.

The more popular the author, the less need for the ARCs and the more collectible they are as a rare item.  If Britney Spears wrote a book and the ARC of that in front of me was once used to wedge lil’ TaterTot all snug in his car seat, I suppose I could get a hefty price on Ebay… Ink on Paper to me, but to someone else it has value for more than what’s on the page. 

ARC sales in place of a legit copy of the book, putting it in the same category of competing against the actual book also available is pretty weak in a moral sense.  The reason here is that at some point, that ARC was a gift, and someone declared that gift had value by attempting to resell it. 

Again, it’s a sin that the seller is involved in, but I think the bigger sin is the buyer.  For the buyer knows that the ARC is not intended to be sold.  It’s promotional, and not intended to be commercial. 

Good Used Book Stores don’t traffic in ARCs for commercial resale—again, the exception being the occasional collectible ARC. 

I know an author who found out third hand that one of her Harlequin series romances was used as the 2nd place prize in a very popular contest.  5,000 copies of that book were given away (no royalties on “promotional” copies, natch) After the contest was over, the forum of a VERY popular sweepstakes website was used to trade unwanted winnings, and sure enough, that particular book was used as a commercial “coin” for a while, as people who didn’t want that Harlequin romance wanted to barter it away for items they did want (such as Coca-Cola awarded music downloads).  Not specifically the ARC argument, but financially it’s pretty close. 

Technically, it’s promotion, and with promotion, the author isn’t making diddly.

When it’s for charity--AND the book’s already published, I don’t see anything wrong with it. In fact, I think it’s a very good idea. It does exactly what an ARC is meant to do--promotes the author--and doesn’t cut into sales. Added, it benefits a good cause.

Jewish Cinco de Mayo doesn’t get nearly enough attention.

I’d argue against the sin for the buyer. What do buyers know from ARCs? Hell, I wouldn’t know if I wasn’t in this industry. And Used Book Stores shouldn’t use ARCs, but it’s definitely not the buyer’s fault. The seller is the one who knows what s/he’s doing is wrong. Says right on the ARC in their hot little hands - not for resale. The buyer is not at fault at all.

When it comes to grey areas of copyright and income and the like, I take the approach of ‘would I be bothered by ____?’ In the case of raising money for charity with the sale of already-published books, I’d be PLEASED with the idea of using anything I’ve written to raise money for a good cause. (Granted, the money I make is from freelance articles, not novels, but still. Income is income.)

IMHO, any author who WOULD have a problem with it needs a reality check and a smack in the head.

And, heck, Nora says it’s okay. LOL

I think the elements of it being after the book has been published (with no change to the work between the ARC and the published book) and a not-for-profit gesture make this an ok idea. 

I’m not sure what I’d think if one or either of those elements were different.  Though I’ve been the consumer in a similar situation and was probably A Very Bad Girl that time.  What I mean is, a band had some tapes stolen of a work in progress.  The final product went on to be one of their very best CDs.  Later on, those mid-progress versions of the songs became available on the internet and I’ll admit to having a listen.  My argument to myself was that it didn’t take any profit away from the band and a long time had passed between the CD’s release and the internet free-for-all, so by then it was an interesting study in the creative process.  In that case I think the band could argue about diminished image or something, but with an ARC I don’t think there is any change to the work between the ARC and the final published book so that issue doesn’t apply.

I guess my point is that, from the side of the consumer, if you really, really want something like this that you don’t necessarily have any right to have, you’re probably going to talk yourself into doing something that gives your conscience a wiggle.  I don’t know if this makes the person who profits financially or the person who profits by getting what they want but don’t necessarily deserve the better/worse in these situations.

But that’s all tangential to this particular scenario...I think I’m just trying to clear my conscience ;-).

Not an author, but leaning towards too much panties in a twist.  Everyone in business to provide a service participates in promotions/advertising...in some way, shape, or form.  It’s in the annual budget AND tax deductable. Our small family business has a small yellow pages ad in three local phone books, the cost is probably comparable to ARC distribution.  And that doesn’t include internet advertising, or other advertising in which we choose to participate.

So, if ARC’s were t-shirts would authors be so pissy?  (Although I hear Barry Bonds whines if promotion stuff he donates is resold at a profit.) Do authors have a preferred method of approved disposal of used ARC’s, and is it printed on the cover like the Not For Resale comment?  Wouldn’t this whole issue would be better resolved with their publisher, and don’t they address ARC’s in their contract?  I’m just askin’ here.

Sounds like a worthwhile cause Sarah, I really want to party at Jewish Cinco de Mayo!

And it is technically illegal.

FWIW, I asked me Intellectual Property professor about this whole situation (it may or may not matter to anyone that he’s a prominent scholar/practicing lawyer teaching at a top tier law school), and he was honestly baffled by the hubbub over this situation.  His understanding is that a) the first sale doctrine protects sales of ARCs even on eBay by those who receive them, b) that as long as they are given as promotional gifts and not given with limited use provisions they are not governed by contract, and c) he asked, very seriously, why authors care about this issue.

Now I understand why authors care, but the more I learn about copyright law, the more I understand why from the perspective of an IP lawyer the question is earnest.

My feeling is that until publishers see this as an “issue” the sale of ARCs will continue unabated.  If the publishers feel they aren’t losing money on the deal, they aren’t going to bother.  They got bigger fish to fry.

Personally I do one of the following with ARCs:

1) Throw them away - but usually I have to find the book totally horrible and unreadable to do this.  In recent memory I’ve thrown away 2 ARCs.....

2) Give them away to other readers.  This is what I do with the bulk of them.

3) Leave them in the break room at work.  Working for a very large library system, we get ARCs all the time.  After my department is done with them (collection development) we put them in the break room for the other staff to read.  After a few months, what is left gets tossed in the trash.

I think giving them away for a charitable cause is a good idea.  Honestly, I think most readers (those that don’t review, aren’t in publishing etc.) get kind of a kick out of seeing ARCs.  I know I do, and I’ve been reading ARCs for close to 8 years now.  The charm just hasn’t worn off yet ;)

I’m ok with it as an author as long as the book has already been published and is for sale, and because the proceeds are going to charity.

Your Jewish calendar must be broken, Sarah.  On mine the holiday shown on the night of May 5 is Lag B’Omer.  Hmmm...build the traditional bonfires, shoot bows and arrows and drink tequila?  I think you might be on to something here.[g]

Personally, if it were my ARC, I would be happy to see it used for charitable purposes.

I’d be okay with it for charity.

I’d have no problem if it were my book, given the circumstances outlined by Sarah.
Besides, Natalie, my protagonist, is Jewish, and I feel she would strongly approve of anything supporting Jewish Cinco de Mayo. Oy! Fiesta!

I absolutely see nothing wrong with it.

Authors auction off pre-release ARCs on ebay for charities all the time and get outrageously big bucks for them.

If the books have already been released and you personally are not profitting, what could possibly be wrong with it- both morally and legally?

Sarah,

I see nothing wrong with giving the books away for charity.  I’d planned to give my store’s cache of ARCs to the local cancer ward when we were closing, but in the end it just didn’t happen.

If you’re interested in sending the ARCs anywhere else, my friend’s brother-in-law’s troop just had their stay in Iraq extended another three months.  This was after they were told they would be going home in a week and most of them had sent stuff home.  They are desperate for books of any kind.  I’m putting together a box of stuff that I’ve bought or received through my blog.  If you’re interested, please let me know.

JulieT said: In the case of raising money for charity with the sale of already-published books, I’d be PLEASED with the idea of using anything I’ve written to raise money for a good cause.

-->In the case of certain charities, I’d be pleased, too, or at least neutral. In the case of certain other charities, I’d be pissed off, in a “geez, I hope no one thinks I support those bozos!” way. But I would accept that as the risk of being a (slightly) public person. As hard as I wish it, I can’t simultaneously control 7 billion people.

Perhaps it’s because part of my job is to make the damn things (BGs and ARCs), but I can’t see getting in a froth about this. It’s like the Great Online Books debate: empirical evidence suggests it doesn’t cut into an author’s earnings, and may in fact help. (Google “Baen Free Library” for that story.)

Would/could a publisher sue someone for resale of an ARC? I think they would have a hell of a time winning, even with the prominent “not for sale” tag. An ARC/BG is a gift, and a person can do whatever the hell they want with a gift, up to and including selling it; or at least that would be the argument put forth by the defense attorneys. Publishers don’t sue ARC/BG resellers because they don’t actually want a court ruling on this. If they can keep Ebay and other online book resellers cowed by non-litigious means, then they win without risk.

Oish, didn’t mean to go off on a rant.

Ask me sometime about coworkers I used to have who would take random hardcovers that were lying about the office (sample copies we get from the printers) and bring them to local bookstores and return them. No, I do not endorse such actions; that’s clear-cut fraud, IMO.

wordver: “money37” Ah, the synchronicity! It burns!

I think your idea is a good one.  I’d rather my ARCs go to a reader who wants it and the money go to charity.  I do object to reviewers selling them, but not to donating them to a worthy cause.

Sarah, I’d be delighted to know that one of my ARCs was going to such a worthy cause. Raffle away!!!!

In the science fiction convention world, this is done all the time-it surprises me that it’s such a big deal in the romance world. I say go for it.

I box up any books I don’t want including the occasional ARC and take them off to a mate who has regular book sales in her front yard as a fund raiser for East Timor. I get rid of the books I don’t want and money goes to women and children in struggling Timor Leste. And part of me is gleeful that all the politically correct folk in my neck of the woods have to go through some trashy romance on their way to something more “uplifting”. I haven’t heard that the romances don’t sell.

Since this is the first time in my career I’ve even HAD arcs to worry about...well, I’d say I think donating them to charity is a fine idea. I’d personally be okay with them raising money for charity.

--M

Since I myself am the proud owner of ARCs purchased from a charity auction (and the basket was donated by the author of said ARCs) - I will go with the consensus here.  I was going to suggest that you could also just give them to me, but then BC had to go have a more altruistic alternative.

Total envy here, am I the only one not receiving ARC’s?  Eeek, how does one get on that list?

IMO, totally appropriate. Once the book is published, the ARC becomes another used copy. Donating them to charity is a wonderful thing to do.

Totally legit.  And I second the person who bafflingly thinks that it’s illegal to sell ARCs.  Nothing in the copyright statute prevents you from selling ARCs.  And unless you made a contract when you received it, there’s no other obligation that is foisted upon you by receipt of an ARC.

Oh, bad word order.  Should be:  “I second the person who thinks it’s baffling that ARC sales are illegal.” Oiks.

No!  It’s wrong!  It’s horrible and evil and you will go to HELLLLLLLLL if you do this…

Okay, not really.  I agree with everyone else.  Go for it--benefiting charity is very rarely a wrong move.

I’m not sure the question is right/wrong.  Why would the “winner” want an unproofed, boring-looking ARC when they could have the actual edited book, complete with nice shiny cover and copy edits?  I think if I was the winner I’d feel a bit cheated.  My two pesos.

correcting my earlier post, on promotional books such as the 5,000 for a contest, the author does get paid, but at the lowest possible royalty rate. 

The only panache someone might have with an ARC is the thought that the ARC passed through the author’s hands. 

The ARCs that mid-list authors get are often sent out to reviewers and lucky fans at the cost of the author.  She does pay a few dollars each to send out those ARCs, the same way she’ll send out her author copies as a way of promotion. 
The difference of course is the low rent cover of the ARC which probably reminds the publisher they’re not making a dime every time that book changes hands. 

My favorite used book store doesn’t trade in ARCs. I don’t know if that policy is one based in legal or moral reasons.

My favorite used book store doesn’t trade in ARCs. I don’t know if that policy is one based in legal or moral reasons.

What, exacty, would the “legal reasons” be?  People refer to the legality of selling ARCs, but I’m not sure I understand the foundation of those references.  That a publisher may threaten someone in vague legalese doesn’t count to me (people try to use the law all the time, even when it doesn’t really apply to them—especially if the person threatened doesn’t know that).

As for the “moral reasons,” if sale of ARCs is pretty much as my IP professor explains, I am thinking that this issue is really one of competing interests.  Authors who don’t want their ARCs distributed beyond their control have a certain interest, and readers who are gifted ARCs have a certain interest.  If a reader feels obligated to the author, then I could see that reader feeling their decision is a “moral” one --- support for an author who is against the wider distribution of his or her ARCs.  But for those readers who don’t feel they owe the author anything, I’m not sure they should be shamed into feeling they are breaching some kind of moral contract—after all, there is no meeting of the minds here.  And if, further, there is no legal obligation, then I’m starting to think it comes down to where a reader’s loyalties lie --- with the wishes of an author or elsewhere.

What, exacty, would the “legal reasons” be?  People refer to the legality of selling ARCs, but I’m not sure I understand the foundation of those references.

-->It’s the “not for sale” tag on the cover.

Now, like everything else in publishing, that damn “not for sale” tag has been on the cover of ARCs and BGs so long that no one remembers why it’s there.

Some people think it’s some sort of publisher’s injunction against selling the ARC as a used book. This goes against common sense, and very possibly against contract law (unrequested gifts are the property of the recipient...though if a return-promise has been made, where does the law come in? This is often debated in disputes over engagement rings).

The real origin of the “not for sale” tag is most likely to make it crystal clear to readers that this is not the offical book. Why readers would be fooled, I can’t imagine. (Of course, I also can’t imagine why people with not an ounce of singing talent cry when Simon rips them a new one on American Idol. Who did they think they were auditioning for? Clearly, the world abounds in really, really, stupid people.)

Er, anyway…

One of the bigger concerns authors have regarding ARCs is if they go up for sale before the book itself is released. My personal reaction is “So?” Isn’t the purpose of an ARC to get advance buzz? I agree it’s tacky for someone to profit, often considerably, merely by being lucky enough to be on a list of ARC-recipients. But how does this hurt the author? She loses a sale?

She might lose a sale, true. Or she might not. Let’s consider the two main reasons (I suspect) people buy ARCs:

1. As a collector’s item.
(a) Well, if they want to read the book but don’t want to damage their collector’s item, they will be buying a regular copy of the book anyway.
(b) If they don’t actually care to read the book-- they’re only buying the ARC for potential resale later when the author is big and famous--then they weren’t going to buy a copy to begin with.

2. Because they can’t wait until the regular book comes out. Okay...how long is the lag between ARC and regular book? Sometimes as little as two weeks. Sometimes as much as eight months. This might be a legitimate concern. But again, (a) how many people are doing this? (Seriously. Lose a couple hundred sales and I can see being annoyed. Lose a dozen? Bitch, please.) and (b) how many of those True Fans are going to buy the regular edition anyway when it comes out? (I venture the answer to that is “most of them.")

My advice to authors is relax and be happy that you’re a hot commodity.

Personally, I’m not (yet) a published author, but I’d be thrilled if my ARCs were sold for charity after the readers were done with them, so long as the book had already been published.

That’ll be .01USD, please.

What, exacty, would the “legal reasons” be?  People refer to the legality of selling ARCs, but I’m not sure I understand the foundation of those references.  That a publisher may threaten someone in vague legalese doesn’t count to me

Now you have me curious, because I don’t know the answer.  I’ll have to ask them.  The UBS in question is a fairly well known one, with author signings and is even featured in some part of the upcoming RT convention in Houston. 

If I had to guess, perhaps it’s because the store sells new books and contracts might have some of that vague legalese that says something about “if you sell our stuff that we don’t want you to sell, we might encourage the distributor of our books to accidentally pass you by"… but that’s just my personal wild assed guess.

Years ago my publisher used to send me to book fairs--the big one that used to be the ABA and is now the BEA--and the regional ones. They did this for two or three years running, so I went to a LOT of book fairs.

These fairs are for booksellers, accounts, industry professionals. Though any of these can buy a badge for their sister or neighbor. A different kind of badge, but these fairs are crowded--and people often switch badges so the other can get some freebies.

Publishers have booths, offer promotional items--often arcs. The bookseller is encouraged to take the promo items. Most would take one or two that interested them, and move on to the next.

But. During my stint I would OFTEN see groups hit those booths or table and scarf up six, eight, ten arcs of the same title at a time--stuffing them in bags, rolly carts, etc. I don’t believe rolly carts are allowed anymore--primarily due to this problem.

These people weren’t grabbing multiple copies of an arc--then hitting the next booth to do the same--for their personal enjoyment, for their store, for a customer--or with the idea of promoting the author. They were doing it for profit. Taking advantage.

So, publishers have cut back on the arcs they promote at these fairs--and have demanded certain measures be taken--like the banning of rolling carts.

Just out of curiosity--because I generally don’t both to look--I checked E-bay. One seller--one single seller--currently has two copies of arcs for my next Robb, and has already sold five others of this title.

How the hell he got seven copies of this arc, I don’t know. But he’s cleaned house. He’ll make about a grand from this. This one title.

He has several other arcs, from several other authors for sale as well.

Will it hurt me? No. It’s not going to hurt my sales when the book comes out at the end of the month.

Am I going to report him to my publisher? Bet your ass.

You go, Nora!!

(And I agree with the consensus. Donate those puppies! And have a great time at Jewish Cinco de Mayo!)

My issue with ARC sellers is those “reviewers” who have no intention of ever reviewing any books, but somehow get ARCs and sell them immediately on EBay.  If you run of search of ARCs on EBay, these sellers come up, and usually the ARCs are listed as “unread.”

I think your idea is fab.  Mazel tov and raise a margarita for a successful Cinco De Mayo event!

I like the idea of a charity, but they might be more appreciated at some sort of charity for literacy or something, for a room full of people who love to read.  I have to agree with whoever said they would be upset if they got a gift basket full of ARCs- since they really are something more appreciated by collectors and slavish fans of the writers.  I would probbaly find it cool, but a lot of people out there might not.

That said, I don’t know what your crowd at your charity likes, so maybe they would like this. 

On topic: morally I dont find it offensive, and I dont think there is a lawyer out there that would try to sue you.

As a social worker employed by a nonprofit, I not only thank you for thinking about doing something like this, but encourage you heartily. It’s hard as hell to make the $$ to keep various programs going, and I personally think that basket of stuff + books sounds adorable and charming.

Just because something is printed on the label doesn’t make it so.  It’s not technically illegal (because if it is technically illegal, it’s illegal).  It might be a moral or ethical issue but it is not a legal one. There is no implied promise upon the receipt of the books. 

In all the conversations I have had with publishers about ARCs not one has said, oh by the way, if we send these to you, you are not to sell them.

Now, am I going to sell them?  Nope but neither is it illegal.

The real origin of the “not for sale” tag is most likely to make it crystal clear to readers that this is not the offical book. Why readers would be fooled, I can’t imagine.

Yeah, that “not for sale” tag is classic promomotional language. 

I understand how it might chap the hide of any author to see his or her ARC for pre-sale on eBay, but I also agree with you about the motivations of most buyers; I think anyone willing to pay a premium price for an ARC is also going to buy the final book, and probably every other edition, too. 

I think one problem is that authors may view copyright as a protection that applies exclusively (or even primarily) to them, when in fact, it’s as much about the market as about individual works.  Thus the existence of various limitations on copyright like the First Sale doctrine, for example, which protects those who a) obtain a lawful copy of an ARC, consequently b) extinguishing the copyright holder’s distribution rights on that individual copy as soon as they sell it or otherwise transfer it to another.

It might be a moral or ethical issue but it is not a legal one.

I’m not even sure it’s a moral or ethical issue, frankly.  Or I should say rather that I don’t think it’s an *objective* moral or legal issue.  I’m more ambivalent about reviewers who sell their ARCs before the final book hits the streets, but in the same way that the law does not see a punishable offense in the sale of an ARC (especially not a punishable offense against the author, since it’s distribution rights at issue), I’m not sure readers should be held morally liable for selling ARCs.  I am VERY sympathetic to the “please don’t” language, but not so much to the “it makes you a bad person” implications.

If I had to guess, perhaps it’s because the store sells new books and contracts might have some of that vague legalese that says something about “if you sell our stuff that we don’t want you to sell, we might encourage the distributor of our books to accidentally pass you by"… but that’s just my personal wild assed guess.

Well, I know of one famous bookstore in New York that advertises on its website that it has ARCs available for libraries at reduced cost (post publication, of course).  My own experience is that I’ve found ARCs at Indies but not at chains.

Let me go back to the guy on E-bay for a minute--who actually had eight (not seven) copies of Innocent In Death arcs sold or for sale. All claiming to be unread. He didn’t get these for review. He didn’t get an arc from the publisher for promotion or for review, then sell it (either reviewing it or not). Publishers don’t send eight copies of a single title to a single reviewer.

It’s likely he works in publishing, or has a contact who does--and is taking the arcs, then selling them for big bucks. One of my arcs went for $300. And the above example isn’t unusual.

The sale of these eight arcs isn’t going to effect the book--it isn’t going to break the publisher either. But it pisses me off that this guy’s made over a thousand dollars off me--this time--and has two more arcs to go.

Maybe some of you don’t see it as a problem. But it’s not the reviewer or bookseller who piles up some arcs after the books are on sale and makes a few bucks. It’s the ones like this jerk on E-bay who screw it up for everyone else.

Mary-Janice Davison said “I’m not sure the question is right/wrong.  Why would the “winner” want an unproofed, boring-looking ARC when they could have the actual edited book, complete with nice shiny cover and copy edits?  I think if I was the winner I’d feel a bit cheated.”

(spot the woman who was stumped after ’ failed to work)

Perhaps you’d just have to describe them a bit more fully than ‘summer beach reading’ so no one felt cheated.  Given so many of the cover snarks, a blank cover might be a bonus for a lot of readers ;)

I’m also a bit confused about the editing process. Isn’t an ARC fully edited, but passed out for review before final sales?  So it’s not very different from the finished product.

I can certainly see authors being miffed when they’re sold early (I dread to think how much cash you’d get for a Harry Potter ARC from the rabid fanbase).  Once the release date’s gone though, I agree with the poster who said they just become another used book.

With, as Mary-Jane said, a boring cover :/

So, I probably wouldn’t even know an ARC from a hole in the wall but I’m okay with that.  I don’t think I’m missing out on anything, I’m more for guilt and doubt free books.

Having said that, IMHO since you aren’t stealing anything or profiting personally to any degree or even stepping on too many toes then go for it Sarah.  Charity is charity and since I live in Canada the rules might be different but if a not for profit has a not for profit number than thats the end of it.  Also, I love the beach, and summer and reading and baskets for that matter so I’m all for it.

At the risk of stirring up a hornets nest, because I have an insatiable curiosity, since we are discussing what’s written inside book covers what are your opinions on books with no covers?

I’m curious.  At the grocery store where I used to work I was in charge of books and magazines (we all know where half of my paycheque went) and we had to return the whole book for credit.  At the little store in the village where I live not half an hours drive away they still rip the covers off and throw the book in the trash.

So is this a similar issue to the ARC one or is it not.

My understanding is that authors don’t even have the right to control the distribution of arcs.  They sell the right to a publisher for the US distribution or the UK distribution or worldwide rights.  Ultimately the entity in ownership of the right of resale, if it actually has that right, of an ARC is the publisher. 

And I think policing EBay misses the point.  The point that needs to be policed is where the 7-8 books are taken by one individual.  When Ms. Roberts commented about her example, I immediately thought that it must be an inside job because reviewers and booksellers only get 1 copy.  At my friend’s bookstore, the booksellers have to share that copy. 

Maybe its at the bookfairs or maybe its at the printing house or whatnot.

If I were in Nora’s shoes, I’d be annoyed too. If some random person is making $$ over my scratch paper, I’d find it irritating. I’d rather donate that potential to the charity of my choice (namely myself, thse days).

However, I’m only a new author with a humble three books on the shelves currently. I’ve handed out ARCs to reviewers who are kind enough to review my books and chat them up for me. (Like you, Candy, but other’s too.) One reviewer carefully told me she NEVER sells ARCS. But she’s done me a big favor by chatting up my stuff without me paying her. I told her to sell the ARC once I was famous, and I was only half kidding.

So Sarah, I would be honored and flattered if you sold my ARC for charity or if you gave it away to a good home. Of course, you may just want to use it as compost in your worm box, and that’s fine too. At least it was recycled!

I don’t know if I’ll change my mind once my ARCs are worth more. I’ll keep you posted.

SWAK,
Lucinda

“It might be a moral or ethical issue but it is not a legal one.”

Actually it is a legal one.  There is such a thing as U.S. copyright law.  And U.S. copyright law protects the right of distribution, including sale.

This right is protected whether or not the author/publisher includes a notice prohibiting sale in the ARC.  When in doubt, ask permission.

Just for fun, I emailed an intellectual property law firm and asked them for their take on this continual discussion.  I’ll report on their response.

It seems to me that people who don’t write for a living are the most adamant about how they’re doing a great favor to writers by buying and selling unauthorized copies on the cheap.

I just saw an ARC on EBay of a book that costs $40.  It was listed for $3.  It’s a beautiful, well-researched history that probably took the author a lifetime of research.  (I’d bought a copy at full-price for the husband.) I also saw an ARC by a popular writer that had already gone up to $60 for a $15 book.

ARCs are fine for charity auctions—this form of “disposal” of an unwanted ARC goes on all the time at SF conventions, for instance, and I haven’t met an author yet who objected to their ARCs being used to support a charitable cause (unless it was for a cause they objected to, but that’s a separate issue).

We aren’t saying that there isn’t a copyright law.  We are saying that the right to sell a promotional item which was given to the reviewer or whomever is not a copyright violation.  The general rule is that the owner of a copy of a copyrighted work may dispose of the work how she or he pleases.  Under the “first sale doctrine,” the copyright owner cannot control the future transfer of a particular copy once its material ownership has been transferred.

If the arc is given without any expectation by the publisher, it is more likely a gift and therefore, the property of the recipient to dispose of as he or she wishes.

Further, assuming that it was a copyright violation, you have to show harm and frankly I think a sale of an ARC would fall under the de minimis rule.  There is actually a no harm/no foul rule in the law.  It’s called causation and if you can’t prove you have been damaged, then you aren’t likely to see relief.

If a store sells stripped books--books stripped of the cover--they’re breaking the law. They strip the cover, send the cover back to the publisher as a return, and are credited for the book. Full credit. THEN, if they sell it rather than disposing of it, they’ve defrauded the publisher who’s credited them for the same book. They’ve cheated the author, too, who is paid no royalties on the book.

Different from selling arcs.

And, to whomever asked, no, arcs are generally not the edited, final copy of the book.

“We are saying that the right to sell a promotional item which was given to the reviewer or whomever is not a copyright violation.”

As much fun as it is to debate the fine points of intellectual copyright law—and I do know about about law because I watched a few episodes of “Night Court” on the Komedy Klassics channel—I’m hoping for an opinion from an intellectual property attorney.

I did an event last week with one of the world’s experts on intellectual property, Stanford Law Professor Paul Goldstein.  He’s the author of Errors and Omissions, a crime thriller about IP.  I’ll ask him if I don’t hear back from the IP law firm.

Yes, no selling of stipped books.  Makes perfect sense to me.  What about other usage?

No selling stripped books either :)

As much fun as it is to debate the fine points of intellectual copyright law—and I do know about about law because I watched a few episodes of “Night Court” on the Komedy Klassics channel—I’m hoping for an opinion from an intellectual property attorney.

Well, I got an opinion from an IP attorney at another big name law school (he teaches and is a practicing atty—very prominent in the field), and his view was clear:  the First Sale doctrine protects the recipient of an ARC, because the ARC is given as a promotional gift with no limited use provisions, and therefore may dispose of it as he/she sees fit.  My prof further found it stunning that authors even care about this issue, probably because he’s looking at it *as a copyright issue*, since copyright to distribution is not generally held by the author (at least not in most mainstream circumstances).  So it’s not your legal rights that are supposedly being infringed to begin with (although I can understand why authors feel this way).

Copyright law, like all IP law, is a balance between the rights of the creator and the rights of others to use that material or create other material after you create yours.  That’s why the duration is limited, and when courts or Congress see fit, that’s why certain further limitations are added on (like the First Sale doctrine).  From what I understand, the prevailing opinion in IP law is that we already have TOO MUCH legal limitation through patent, copyright, trademark, and trade secret law.

Certainly the logic of copyright law is *in part* to reward the labor and creativity of the copyright holder, but it’s also about creating just enough incentive to keep creativity alive without allowing a monopoly that would, ironically, stifle greater creativity.  In other words, it’s largely a market issue, far more than it is a pure integrity of the artist issue.  I know most authors don’t see it that way, but perhaps that’s because the copyright creates a perception of “specialness” that isn’t necessarily present in the unique and innovative work people do that isn’t copyright-able or that they don’t hold copyright to, but that we all profit or benefit from in other ways (think about those copywriters, for example, who make a gazillion dollars for some corporate entity and yet don’t own the copyright or trademark to their words).

I’m one who hates ARC sales.  I continue to do rewrites on my copy edits, plus the ARCs are almost always unedited so they’re full of places where the computer burped or I got sloppy with a comma.  ARCs are not the finished book.  Professionals know that, the people who are supposed to get the book in order to gauge how many they’re going to buy or got it because they’re in a position to talk about it to people who will buy it.  BUT the people who buy them on eBay think they’re getting a trade paperback.  They think they’ve got the real book.  And that makes my anal retentive soul INSANE.  It’s not a real book until I’m done with the copy edits and the galleys because I rewrite on them, too.  That’s not my finished book.  And it’s my intellectual property which I have not given permission to be distributed as my work.  An ARC is not a t-shirt, it’s my story and it’s not DONE. 

So these people are selling a substandard book under my name as the finished novel.  I hate them.  They’re swindling my readers by selling something they got for free and were expressly told not to sell, but the hell with ethics, they’re gonna make money even though it’s fraud.

So I’m against ARCs being sold.

After that rant, would I stop Sarah from giving away my ARC? Of course not, the bad PR from that is ten times worse than somebody reading an early version of the book that’s going to be.  I’m not THAT insane.  And it’s for charity.  But somebody is going to open that basket and read that ARC and say, “Jenny Crusie isn’t all that good.”

Of course, she might say that even with the finished one.  But I’d have a fighting chance with the real book.

Yes, Sarah, go ahead.  I’ll live.  And it’s for charity.  Just put a note on mine that says, “It got really good after she rewrote the galleys.”

Thank you.

The final word...is that there is no final word on ARC sales.  Stanford Law Professor Paul Goldstein has been good enough to email back to me on the topic. 

He says that the legality of reselling ARCs is “about a century old.” He also says, “In theory, since the recipient did not expressly agree not to resell, she is free to do so. There is, however, a countervailing theory that this restriction imposes a “servitude” on the book that the recipient cannot violate.”

Prof. Goldstein said that litigation would resolve this, but that litigation hasn’t happened because the stakes are “so small, and few publishers would, in any event, want to alienate this important audience.”

So there you have it from the man who wrote the book—or rather, the man who wrote several volumes that are used as casebooks on intellectual property.

I hereby declare this debate done.  Let’s go watch “Ugly Betty.”

Oops, that 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence, this should have read:

He says that the debate about the legality of reselling ARCs is “about a century old.”

I hereby declare this debate done.

So . . . you’re suggesting a change of topic to the first amendment?  ;)

(yes I know it’s state actors, but I couldn’t resist, especially since your “final word” was basically the same as my expert witness’s and Jane’s, an expert unto herself—plus it sounds like E might be an atty, too.  I’m not sure if Goldstein’s books are bigger than my prof’s, but perhaps we could whip ‘em out and see).

I’m not sure if Goldstein’s books are bigger than my prof’s, but perhaps we could whip ‘em out and see

Wow.  That sounds so… male.  I think I have law-book envy--well, Freud says so, anyway.

... but the real test is if they can write their names in the snow with them afterward…

From The Dean’s Desk:
But my dear readers (and illustrious writers and personally affected published authors), not one of you has mentioned the utter tackiness of the peddling of ARC’s.  MJD did mention their substandard quality but forgot to note the paucity of good adhesive and tactile unpleasantness of the paper. Such unacceptable manners and behavior generally--perhaps ghoulish to profit from the ‘death’ of the ARC. 
The Dean

“your ‘final word’ was basically the same as my expert witness’s and Jane’s, an expert unto herself—plus it sounds like E might be an atty, too.”

Actually, there’s a major difference.  Prof. Goldstein said that this is undecided and that there are arguments on both sides.  Jane said, “We are saying that the right to sell a promotional item which was given to the reviewer or whomever is not a copyright violation.”

“I’m not sure if Goldstein’s books are bigger than my prof’s, but perhaps we could whip ‘em out and see.”

As you wish.  Prof. Goldstein’s books include:

-Goldstein On Copyright, Aspen.
-Copyright’s Highway: From Gutenberg to the Celestial Jukebox, Stanford University Press.
-Copyright, Patent, Trademark and Related State Doctrines: Cases and Materials on Intellectual Property Law, Foundation Press.
-International Copyright: Principles, Law and Practice, Oxford University Press.
-International Intellectual Property Law : Cases and Materials,Foundation Press.
-Property Law: Ownership, Use, And Conservation (University Casebook Series)
-Goldstein’s Real Property (University Casebook Series), West Publishing

Also, as was pointed out by others, including Dean, it’s just tacky to sell ARCs. If you must dispose of them, give them away.

Actually, there’s a major difference.  Prof. Goldstein said that this is undecided and that there are arguments on both sides.  Jane said, “We are saying that the right to sell a promotional item which was given to the reviewer or whomever is not a copyright violation.”

Actually, the difference, as I understad it, lies in the nature of the ARC itself, which we have all commented on.  If it’s a gift, the recipient has no obligations to the giver; if it’s a limited use contract, the recipient *might*—but thus far, publishers have been treating ARCs as gifts, ESPECIALLY in so far as they are routinely given unsolicited, which, again, undermines the limited use contract theory (although the meeting of the minds standard has fallen by the wayside, you still need offer, acceptance, and consideration to create a valid and enforceable contract).  Goldstein’s comments refer to and depend on this distinction, as well.

I’m not sure if Goldstein’s books are bigger than my prof’s, but perhaps we could whip ‘em out and see

Wow.  That sounds so… male.  I think I have law-book envy--well, Freud says so, anyway.

Uh, I hope it was clear I was being facetious.  I’m extremely secure in the reputation of my IP professor, as is the legal community (and he, as well, for that matter—WONDERFUL guy).

I’m not an author. But the selling of ARC’s on ebay drives me up a friggin’ WALL. I was DESPERATE to get my hands on the new JD Robb (hey Nora! LOL), literally drooling and foaming at the mouth. Check ebay and what do I see? An ARC going for 356 American Dollars, plus shipping. Are you freaking joking me?

This book will be out at the end of the month (and actually, when I was looking it was late December...I’ve since managed to lay hands on the UK edition. *sigh* I’m so happy ). It runs about 25 bucks. Am I willing to pay fifteen times what the book is worth for an unedited, paperback, poorly bound copy? Especially when I know la Nora will see NO compensation for this? HELL NO! I adore this series, but come on.

It’s not about the author losing sales. I really don’t think that’s the issue here, or why authors get so torqued about it. It’s the fact that these people are passing these books off as the final copy and getting oodles of money for it. THAT is where the moral issue lies.

I saw that guy on ebay with the 8 copies of Innocent in Death...he wasn’t the only one. Do you think it’s right that some random guy with a publishing “connection” is raking in over a thousand dollars, and not one cent is going to the author or publisher? I sure as hell don’t.

These people are no better than drug dealers. It’s like bringing one rock of crack into a roomfull of dealers and selling to the highest bidder. Watch the madness and get LOTS of cash. Super people they are.

Anyways. Just my two cents, FWIW (and it’s not worth much. )

A roomfull of ADDICTS even. Geesh. I can’t type when I’m on a roll. :D

Well, slap me and call me blond, but I don’t understand all this hoohah over ARC’s.  What makes them so sacrosanct?  Please, somebody clue me in!

Shit, used books are bought/sold/traded all over the world all the time, on the Internet and in brick-and-mortar stores.  An ARC is nothing more than a book that hasn’t been finessed.  So what’s the big freakin’ deal?  Honestly, I just don’t get it...especially after reading what Professor Goldstein said.  And I don’t think he even knew what he said.

~Shit, used books are bought/sold/traded all over the world all the time, on the Internet and in brick-and-mortar stores.~

And a used book was once a new book, bought and paid for. A used book was the finished, fully edited, published copy. Re-sell them until the pages crumble away--fine with me.

An arc isn’t just not finessed, it’s not FINISHED. It was not bought and paid for.

I imagine I could print out an extra copy of a manuscript, toss it out on ebay well before publication time. Get some nice bucks for it. I can’t see that it wouldn’t be legal--my work, after all. But I bet most people would find it really tacky and exploitive.

I’m clearly asking for a bitch slap, a clue cake, and what not, but what the hell.

To print out a copy and sell it is a violation of the copyright:  the publisher bought the right of distribution from you, the author, and thus your “printing and selling” is a violation of that.

The selling of an ARC is not a clear violation.  It might be tacky.  It might be an ethical issue.  I don’t sell my ARCs because I know the generally prevailing authorial feeling on them.  I throw them away or, in some instances, I have given them away with Publisher permission.  But not everyone may understand that its the generally previailing authorial opinion that the sale of ARCs is considered to be an act only a horrible exploitive person would undertake. 

I don’t even know that its exploitative because the violation of a right, if there is one, is the right of the publisher and not the author.  In some sense, selling an ARC for $1,000 is no different than the person(s) who sold Suzanne Brockmann’s Ladies Man for $1,000.00. No one paid for that book.  It was a giveaway. They were rare and before reprint sold on the secondary market for many many dollar. 

And . . . while I’ve not read a ton of arcs and compared them with finished copies, I have read some and I find the differences to be not appreciable.  Maybe I am just not comparing books that have been heavily revised.

I think Ms. Crusie’s description of who gets ARCs is a bit of a utopian one.

Professionals know that, the people who are supposed to get the book in order to gauge how many they’re going to buy or got it because they’re in a position to talk about it to people who will buy it.

In talking to my bookseller friend who has been reading ARCs for 17 years now, there is no special ARC reading training school that the booksellers go to before they get an ARC to read so that they know that this isn’t really a book.  Maybe I shouldn’t be getting ARCs because while I am happy to ignore strange spellings, grammatical errors and the such, I assume that if the ARC is slow to start or has a deux ax machina ending, it’s going to be there in the final version.

I remember reading an ARC of Narcissus in Chains.  All the bad sex that was in the ARC still existed in the final copy.  It’s a good thing I didn’t know at the time that the ARC wasn’t a finished copy because I would have had my hopes up that the book was suddenly going to get much better in the next few months.

I’m certainly sorry if I am offending people and I can understand that it is a hot button issue with authors.  My hot button issue has always been calling the people who sell arcs thieves and criminals or people engaging in illegal (as opposed to unethical) acts when that isn’t really the case.

No bitch-slapping from me (this time). And you probably know more about copyright law than I do, as I don’t know all that much.

But, I do know that arcs are produced BEFORE the galley stage or final proofing. There was a glitch a few books back with my audio publisher, and the book was recorded from the ms before galley proofing (as in arc). TONS of mistakes--misnamed characters that weren’t caught in line and copy editing, none of the changes I made on the galleys. We got LOTS of complaints from audio readers.

It’s very possible that other authors/editors have cleaner arcs than a lot of mine tend to be. But I’d never proofed a galley and not made corrections or changes for the final version of the book.

As for the ms. I routinely auction off an original ms (of a published book) for charity every year. The publisher’s fine with it--but I can see that it may be a different kettle--legally and ethically--if I’d done that--for my own profit--before publication.

I don’t think the reviewer or bookseller who tosses an arc on ebay or wherever is a thief--but I don’t--obviously--like the practice. I absolutely see the 8 copies of the same arc for sale ebay guy as one.

I think it’s fine to give away for charity purposes. 

The person on ebay selling ARC’s is out of line.  The people that buy them are nuts too.  *A room full of Addicts*-lol!

ARC’s are very cool, imho, just because they are not the final copy.  And when it’s from a beloved author it’s special.  I still buy the Final polished for sale copy. 

I’ve a few ARC’s from various authors for reviewing and I usually donate them or give them to friends to read after they are published.  Some of them have the *real* cover some don’t it just depends on the publisher(I think?).  As far as throwing the ARC away it’s against my *morals* to throw away a book. 

If I were the author and someone was making major bucks off my work I’d be one PO’d redhead.  It’s tacky and just plain WRONG. 

I guess some people have no morals.  We can only hope that the one or two bad eggs get what’s due in the end.

I’m certainly sorry if I am offending people and I can understand that it is a hot button issue with authors.  My hot button issue has always been calling the people who sell arcs thieves and criminals or people engaging in illegal (as opposed to unethical) acts when that isn’t really the case

Is it illegal? Probably not. Is it unethical and dishonest? Bet your ass.

I’m not talking about somebody who recieved the book for review purposes (and actually READ THE BOOK), or recieved it as a gift, or whatnot. Completely different kettle. If they want to sell it, then that’s thier own business, and I don’t blame them.

It’s the people like this ebay guy who I will guaran-fricking-TEE has never read a single In Death book (or probably ANY book for that matter). How in the hell is it right that HE should make over a thousand dollars on EIGHT (that’s one more than seven) copies of a single ARC title? He has nothing to do with the publishing, the writing, or anything else when it comes to this book. He’s like a fence. Passing on “stolen” property for profit.

This guy is a toad. A complete and total mantoad. He’s raked in a LOT of money for no work. None (doesn’t that chap your ass?). And he gets to screw the author AND the fans. What a friggin’ prince.

One more thing, the ARCs this guy is selling are copies of an UNPUBLISHED book. The street date isn’t here. These copies started popping up last OCTOBER (which is actually before Born In Death, the last book, hit the selves). He’s not putting ARCs of already published books out there. He’s putting copies of the unpublished book.

You wanna take bets on how much he gets for his ARCs of Innocent in Death once it hits the shelves February 20? I’m taking less than ten bucks.

This guy KNOWS that this is an unpublished book (it’s right there in his ebay selling mantra..."This book isn’t even OUT yet!"). He knows there’s fans out there willing to pay his price. He’s taking advantage, and over and above screwing the author, he’s screwing the fans. That’s reprehensible.