Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

Sounds like Secret Fire by Johanna Lindsey.

If you check out the reviews at Amazon the first one gives a really similar description.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Fire-Johanna-Lindsey/dp/0380750872/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2270947-5702204?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190475686&sr=8-2

Been ages since I read it but I remember the hero uses an aphrodisiac on the heroine.

Oh, good grief. I know this book. I wanted to hurl. Did I hurl? I can’t remember; some things you automatically block from memory for self preservation. ;)

I can’t remember the title or author, but if it helps, the hero was a Russian ‘Prince’. And the drug was not used once, but twice. There was also a pregnancy. I get the feeling this book was one of a series, but again, mental block rears up.

Will come back if I can actually dredge up a title/author. ;)

LesleyW beat me to it :) That’s the book I recall.

Yep. That’s what I came to say.  It definitely sounds like “Secret Fire.” I’d have a hard time believing that there is another book out there with that exact plot.

That must have been a common theme once-upon-a-time, as I recall Rosemary Rogers using similar ideas in her Ginney & Steve series.

I haven’t read any Lindsey, but it does sound like Beatrice Small, whose books a friend foisted off on me before I knew any better.

I keep trying to figure out what the first romance novel I EVER read was and all I remember is that it was by Johanna Lindsey and the heroine may or may not have had very silver blond hair and there was a possible kidnapping.  So, of course, I’m reading the Secret Fire summary and wondering if this was it!

But then I’m convinced there may have been Vikings (who I now can’t stand) and Fabio on the cover, in which case SF is out of the running.

Oh, angst!

This was a bad, bad book.

I remember JL as being awful until the Mallorys came along.  Honestly, I think the time period dictated the terrible, abusive, rape-or-close-to-it plots.  Some of the books from that period read as though an editor sent them back and asked for a rape scene or terrible forced seduction to be added.  I’ve often wondered.

Seems to be making a comeback.

Reminds me of a Susan Johnson book I read a long time ago, but I don’t think I remember the part about being in a box.  The one I’m thinking of included a train journey, a Russian prince/noble/somethingorother, and a young ingenue.  Prolly it’s the JL book tho.  Ahh, forced seduction and a little judicious application of the magical aphrodisiac, those were the days.

But then I’m convinced there may have been Vikings (who I now can’t stand) and Fabio on the cover, in which case SF is out of the running.

There is a Johanna Lindsey with Vikings called “Hearts Aflame”.  I think that the heroine had blonde hair in that one.  IIRC, it was the first romance with a Fabio cover as well.

Thanks, Elle.

After perusing several Lindsey book summaries, I think I’ve got it narrowed down to where it could be Hearts Aflame, Captive Bride, or A Pirate’s Love.

I don’t know why I’m taxing myself mentally trying to remember a book I read 16-17 years ago.

Even worse is one I’ve been searching for that I read as a teen involving pirates and pirate’s lady named Christabel Willing.  I think it was a trilogy. I have never found it again.

There was a Johanna Lindsey book where the heroine had silver hair - Silver Angel - and though there were no Vikings, I think the heroine did get kidnapped.  That may describe 99.9% of Johanna Lindsey books.

Could it be Wild Silver,by Iris Johansen? That has the Russian Prince,boat,pregnancy,and all.
The Windflower,has a heroine Merry Wilding,it is by Laura London (very good book) it came to mind with the name Christabel,but then i remembered Valerie Sherwood i think had a trilogy of books with a herion named similarly. Lovesong,nightsong,something like that? hope this helps.

Sula, that’s “Love Storm”.  Definitely no boxes.  Also, as I recall, the aphrodisiac was used by the evil hill tribe leader (or something like that) who had temporarily captured our heroine before the hero nobly rescued her by buying her back mid-sex scene.

Why it is that I can remember many many details of that book when I can’t remember interesting or important details of my life, I couldn’t tell you.  I would like those neurons back, please…

I ditto Secret Fire . . . hero gives the heroine an aphrodisiac and he has her kidnapped because he believes her to be a servant . . . she had worn her servant’s outfit on the street for some inane reason.

It does sound horrifyingly bad, but IT’S STILL IN PRINT.  What does that mean, exactly?  Great word of mouth? That it is a good book, with difficult themes?

(-: Now I gotta get it, and judge for myself.

Could it be Wild Silver,by Iris Johansen?

No, definitely not Wild Silver.  No aphrodisiacs in that one (I know because I have 2 copies).

But it definitely sounds like a Johanna Lindsey.

moondance_1 - Oh my God, thank you! YES! Valerie Sherwood’s “Song” trilogy is the pirate trilogy!  I can’t even tell you how long I’ve been trying to remember the names of those books!  And, bwahaha, I love that I remembered her “pirate lady” name, Christabel Willing, but forgot the heroine’s equally ridiculous normal name: Carolina Lightfoot.  And then there’s her captor/lover… Captain Kells, a.k.a. Rye Evistock!

How could I have forgotten such clearly classic literature?  LOL.

Yes, Love Storm was the one I was thinking of, Pamela, thanks for reminding me...I think. lol.  It’s all coming back to me now.  The hero rescues the heroine after a scene which includes aphrodisiacs administered by the evil tribal chief and a session with a gigantic leather dildo.  How the heck I still remember that, I’m not sure I want to know.

Ha! My word is want98...like, I WANT the 98 (or more) minutes back that I wasted on that book.

It really does sound like Secret Fire. She proves her innate nobility by being The Best Servant Evah, even though all the other servants pick on her because she is comforted by the knowledge that he will be SO SORRY when he finds out she was telling the truth all along.

And she openly has an illegitimate child but it’s ok because everyone wants to marry her anyway. And hey, the second time he was HELPING her out with her itch-> he didn’t really want to see her suffer from her burning lust but he nobly refrains from coming until, gosh darn it, she INSISTS on piv. That’s how we know it’s love.

Love Storm was the one I was remembering too.  It’s kind of difficult to forget.

Another one that might fit the plot is “Passion’s Heirs” by Elizabeth Bright which I read when I was 14 ... there’s definitely a train scene in the middle, and near the beginning the heroine is kidnapped and drugged by the hero.  I remember it because it was the first romance novel I ever read.  At least part of it takes place in the US. 

Here’s a link to it on Amazon.  http://www.amazon.com/Passions-Heirs-Elizabeth-Bright/dp/0671417827/ref=sr_1_3/105-0399742-2987629?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190513072&sr=1-3

Well, yes, Secret Fire is awful, but it’s a really great stroke book!  ;) Or at least it was when I was 17.  Is that TMI?

And she openly has an illegitimate child but it’s ok because everyone wants to marry her anyway. And hey, the second time he was HELPING her out with her itch-> he didn’t really want to see her suffer from her burning lust but he nobly refrains from coming until, gosh darn it, she INSISTS on piv.

Momentarily stumped by the word “piv”, I looked it up and came up with the following potential definitions:

PIV Particle Image Velocimetry
PIV Peak Inverse Voltage
PIV Pentium 4
PIV Peripheral IV
PIV Personal Identification Verification
PIV Physical Inventory Verification
PIV Pontoon Implantment Vehicle
PIV Positively Infinitely Variable (type of gearbox)
PIV Post Implementation Verification
PIV Post Indicator Valve (firefighting)
PIV Pre-Inventory Visit
PIV Product Improvement Verification
PIV Propellant Isolation Valve

Then I thought about it for about 15 seconds (using clues from the context in the sentence!) and I’ve got it figured out. Although “Pontoon Implantment Vehicle” would have been pretty funny in that sentence....

Hey, my first introduction to stoke books was Valley of Horses. Man, that book got passed around every girl in my class when I was 12.

Beatrice Small was virtually a step up after that.

Elle- I look at Pontoon Implantment Vehicle and my brain replaces the first word with Poontang. It appears my brain is set to ‘smut’ today.

Yea, I distinctly remember a book with a Russian prince, an evil servant, spanish fly, and tons of sex as the cure. But I thought they were on a boat, not a train. Maybe a train to the boat? Did we decide it was a Johanna Lindsey?

At the risk of sounding totally naive (I am far too old to be asking questions like this)...what is a stroke book?

Publically outing myself as a former faithful teen Johanna Lindsay addict. Not sure whether I would like the books today, but here are details I remember of various titles mentioned. Maybe they’ll help.

Blonde with the viking: Kirsten (Kristen?) and for some reason I want to say Tristan, which makes no sense because that would give them rhyming names. Not that that means it didn’t happen, but Kirsten was placed in her “hero’s” household as a slave. Much to-do was made of the fact that she was nearly as tall as he. In one scene she was shackled to the kitchen table and used her chain to bash someone upside the head with a table.

The Russian Prince story: Forget the title. Characters were Stefan and Anastasia. Boats were involved. Ana started out the book working as a belly dancer (or similar). I didn’t like the Russian Prince angle so I didn’t finish reading it.

Captive Bride, the pirate story, had a blonde heroine. Her name was Bettina. Her “hero” either nearly, or actually, whipped her with the cat o’nine on his ship. I remember a scene with the “hero” using the heroine’s thick blonde braid to “whip” her in an erotic scene, but I honestly don’t recall whether it was a braid belonging to Bettina or Kristen.

Silver Angel: Chantal and Derek. Derek had a twin who had a harem. Derek, impersonating his twin for some purpose or another - murder investigation maybe - brought Chantal into his (Derek’s) harem after dismissing the women of his brother’s harem because if he didn’t have fresh new women of his own he wouldn’t be a convincing sultan. His brother’s harem ladies would know that Derek was not his brother. Chantal was kidnapped off the English coast and traveled by boat. One scene had the boat guys testing her virginity with a stick. Silver Angel was the cover w/ the bony blonde with giant boobs defying gravity by not completely escaping the underwire top of her harem costume. Derek had her spread out across a pile of colorful silk pillows. Yes, I admit this was one of my favorites.

I remember being about 16 and realizing that all the JL book cover models looked the same, with variations on hair length and color. I thought Fabio had lots of airbrushing.

If you’re going with a JL book as the book belonging to the mystery plot, I’d try Secret Fire. It’s the plot I know the least, but none of the other JL plots match as many of the conditions as you listed. Good luck. :)

Whoops, have to revise my comment! After I re-read the synopsis for Secret Fire, it came back to me. That’s the OTHER Russian Prince book (the one I liked) and is the aphrodisiac one. Total girl porn.

The Stefan/Anastasia Russian Prince book...bleh.

YES! It was Secret Fire. Oh god, that’s even worse than I remembered. Anyone know why rape is so okay and prevalent in older romance? I mean, I know some girls have a thing for the idea of being forced because then they don’t have to admit responsibility to their dirty urges, but come on, even if you get off on that, who wants the heroine to MARRY the asshat later? I would be much happier if every raped heroine ended up biting off the offending member.

Ew. I just grossed myself out.

A stroke book is...um...a good book to masturbate to.  Stroke, I assume, for the boys, but we use the same term, because what else would it be? A very small circles book?  A vibrating book?  I guess if you get a dildo involved it’s stroking.  ;)

Anyway. Jean Aeuel (sp?) never did if for me personally.  I prefer a little D/s in my diet and apparently did even back then.

Secret Fire was “better” in my 17yo mind than the other “rape” books because it wasn’t really rape.  She didn’t only want it, she NEEDED it, would have gone crazy without it.  It was medicinal sex and yet still completely against her will.  That was hot when I was 17 even though I had no clue why.  Not so much now.  Now I just prefer Joey Hill.  Willing submission is so much hotter.

Having actually been alive when the romance novels all had to have a little rape in ‘em--it’s ‘cause we were sposed to fight to the death to remain virginal.  Never mind that it was the late sixties and early seventies and we were all fucking like bunnies.  I think that the “guidelines” back then encouraged rape and/or forced seduction.  Or the heroine beats up the hero first--this was to indicate passion and readiness for sex.  I guess.  You would have had to be there.  And as Jelly Roll Morton said, “If you remember the sixties, you weren’t there.” LaNora probably remembers those days.  OOh, and the 18 y/o virgin with the 45 y/o sleaze bag guy.  They don’t write books like that anymore.  Thank God.

Rape-as-foreplay is making a comeback!  Isn’t that a horrible thought?  I don’t know what’s going on in the romance world, though I was reading along for the Claiming the Courtesan kerfuffle, but in soaps...it’s all the rage!  Days of our Lives‘ most popular new pairing is a charming English rogue who raped his “true love” Samantha in a car in order to impregnate her with his child.  If she didn’t submit, he wouldn’t help her save her husband, Lucas. The ladies are going GA-GA over this story.  I don’t quite understand it.

Oh my goodness, I actually remember that book.  I remember reading a few pages of Secret Fire in the bookstore, and getting grossed out by the idea of the hero raping the heroine ‘for her own good’ after he’d drugged her.  I put it back on the shelf and never read a JL book again.

I just found the first steamy romance I remembered reading, Jennifer Blake’s Royal Seduction, which has rape and imprisonment and seduction and all that. My grandma, who didn’t read English so well, had it at her house when I visited aat age 12. I could analyze what effect that had on my sexual tastes, but I really don’t want to know.

I was told several years ago by a Lady who published romances at the time (since retired) that the editors of the “rape fantasies” were mostly male and thought that’s what women wanted.  More like wanted to believe themselves.  Anyway there WAS a time where that type of story was requested by editors.

The author was incredibly glad when that storyline disappeared.

Robin

I’ve actually read Secret Fire. It was not one of the most realistic historicals I’ve read.

I totally remember reading Secret Fire, and I totally died inside just a little admitting that to myself.

Along the same lines, does anybody remember this particular series of books that was about members (heh, I said member) of a family out west, and I think they were written by a group of authors.  The details I have about these books are vague.  In one, the heroine tempestuously admits that she loves the hero and throws a vase or something at him, causing the hand-painted wallpaper behind him to get wet and run.  In the same book, the hero goes down on the heroine, crushing strawberries in his hand and smearing them on her hey hey, then licking them up.  This action then leads the heroine to declare her love later by throwing said vase and ruining said wallpaper.

In the same series, one of the family members (I said it again!), who is a woman and also half American Indian, winds up get kidnapped by a Russian prince (what the hell is this with the Russian princes and their kidnapping?  Are there, like, not enough downtrodden peasants at home to subjegate and rape?), mistakenly believing she was somehow involved in the death of a relative of his back in the good Ol’ U S of A.  At some point in the book, she dons a cape of feathers, striking comparisons to the mythical Firebird of Russian folklore.  I tried looking up Firebird on Amazon and was rewarded with zilch.  So, please, can you help another bitch out and end this Moebius Strip of insanity?

Yours, &c.

What Sarah said about “stroke books”.  Also, in women-friendly porn circles you find reference to “jilling off” as opposed to “jacking off”.

While everyone is searching remaining brain cells for old books...I’ve been attempting to remember the title of a YA book.  Earthlings & space pioneers have become seperate cultures & are at odds.  About a brother & sister kidnapped into space (from a public pool?), their father is a VIP?.  Unbeknownst to earthlings, no women were born in space, because space rays kill the chromosone that produces girls, so spacemen are forced to kidnap earth wives.  The spaceman, sister & brother, have adventures, meet aliens, and experience mutual enlightenment prior to the resolution.  Includes mild romantic theme between kidnapper & sister.  Would like to read it again & pass to my teens, if I could just remember the title!

“The Russian Prince story: Forget the title. Characters were Stefan and Anastasia. Boats were involved. Ana started out the book working as a belly dancer (or similar). I didn’t like the Russian Prince angle so I didn’t finish reading it.”

“Captive Bride, the pirate story, had a blonde heroine. Her name was Bettina.”

Nope, you got these two books wrong.  The first one is “Once A Princess” and one of my favorites of Johanna Lindsey.  I reread it at least every other year.  Very feisty resourceful heroine.  No rape scenes, just some near misses. 

The second book, “Captive Bride” is where the hero is half-Arab and kidnaps Christina.  I do believe this is a “rape romance” from the 70’s.  Overall, not bad for its time but very very dated.  I think it’s one of the first one of Johanna Lindsey’s that I ever read and not one I’ve reread in a couple decades (how old am I?!!).

Seemed like Rosemary Rogers was one of the big forerunners of the rape romances with her “Wicked Loving Lies” and “Sweet Savage Love”.  Very popular at the time but entirely dated now.  Kathleen Woodiwiss was much better with her “The Flame and the Flower” which I still reread from time to time.

DL

Raiders from the Rings by Alan Nourse.  My junior high library only had the one book, so I wasn’t aware it was a series.

Oh my god, Jennifer Blake’s Royal Seduction was the very first “adult” romance novel I ever read at age 11 or so.  I swiped it from an older cousin and read it in secret in my room. (I would borrow never-ending supplies of romance novels from my cousins, but had to do it on the sly as my mother disapproved.) I was ENTHRALLED at the time, and revisited it several years later and was APPALLED.  It was the type of book that involved a fair amount of torture with feathers and excused the hero’s initial forced seduction b/c he had mistaken her for her evil cousin.  As I recall, the heroine was identical to her evil cousin except her colouring was more vibrant (redder hair, greener eyes) and so her family had always told her she looked cheap. I’ve been trying to remember the name and title of that book for years. 

It wasn’t enlightened of me, but I loved some books with hardcore forced seduction when I was in 5th - 9th grade.  Although even then I had my limits.  My trick was to look at the publish date on the flyleaf.  If it was before 1980 I’d usually skip it b/c I knew the hero would be too mean, even for my standards.

Zoe,
Google Linda Lael Miller-her heroes loved going down and she had a family series set in the west.

I’ve read Linda Lael Miller’s western series… I don’t think it is what Zoe is looking for.

They were good then, but now… not so much.

I remember “Secret Fire” now.  The heroine was an English noblewoman dressed like a servant for some stupid reason, and the Russian was a prince who kidnapped her.  I think it was his servant who fed her Spanish fly to be helpful.  After raping her and realizing she was a virgin, the prince suddenly got all noble and decided he wouldn’t “indulge” himself any further.  He thought about calling his men to satisfy her (I think that line was the reason the book made such an impression on me).  Then she begged him for relief and...being so noble and all...he only used his hands and mouth to help give her relief. 

It only got worse.  He left her in his aunt’s (maybe) custody and the old bitch beat her within an inch of her life. 

Somehow the heroine returned to England where she had a baby.  The prince shows up while she’s with the child in the park, I think, and he’s all full of arrogant sorrow.

That book almost permanently turned me off romance novels.

Jesus on a freakin’ pogo stick--###p like that got published????

Just the concept of such a bloody awful premise makes my guts want to leap up my throat and run away in terror.  That someone actually SOLD it--yikes!

The SEALs should have that book as required reading.  Anyone who doesn’t hurl can be the toughest SOB in the whole unit.

I’m going back to reading hard-boiled mysteries.  You Smart Bitches play way too rough!

I’m a little confused about all this “Rape plots are icky and yucky” business. Yes, most old-school romance with rape plot is generally whimpering female crap, but the RAPE part is… not so weird.

Plenty of a women have a rape fantasy. That’s a heckuva lot different than wanting to be raped, and most women are able to draw a big black line between “fantasy” and “reality,” mind you, but there it is. There’s a reason the Luke and Laura story line on GENERAL HOSPITAL survived as long as it did…

There’s a reason the Luke and Laura story line on GENERAL HOSPITAL survived as long as it did…

Yes, but that was icky!

ah, the old rape as the prelude to true love plot. Yup, I remember those. shudder.

I still remember one I read - one of the really thick ones, 400+ pages - where the heroine kept getting raped by various men and, finally, on page 435 or something, says “I’m tired of being raped.” My reaction was, what took her so long.

And this was back in the heyday of the “bodice ripper” - remember those? There seemed to be a requirement that there be a scene where someone “hooks his fingers” into the heroine’s bodice. If it’s the hero, the dress shreds, her “alabaster orbs” fall out, and they go to it. If it’s the villain, usually the hero arrives in the nick of time and much boinking ensues.

Compcat...OMG that’s it, I think I love you!  Muchas, muchas gracias!  It was part of a series?

I’ve hesitated to reread early favorites from the bodice ripping/rape era.  For the most part they haven’t aged well, and I find them tedious in my maturity.

Katie...I assure you, I don’t entertain
ANY rape fantasies, nor am I turned on by pediophelia, incest, or bondage.  Beyond those boundries, it’s all fun & erotic. 

Just finished Eve Kenin’s Shomi...alot more fun than General Hospital.

Good old Johanna Lindsey. Gentle Rogue was my first bodice ripper (Pirates! Heroine in drag! Fabio on the cover!) and I loved it.

I was very - too! - young when I started reading those books (about 14) and all that wilfull rape and plunder never really struck me as ‘wrong,’ or ‘bad’ until I was much older. Looking back on it, I can’t believe how utterly RAMPANT it was. Nowadays I find most domineering alpha males utterly repellent (I loath Shannon McKenna’s particular breed). 

How times have changed. You couldn’t get away with that now (...could you??!)

snicker

she said “rampant”

I am 12

“her “alabaster orbs” fall out, and they go to it.”

No doubt it takes the couple a bit of time to put them back if the damned things are rolling around the floor like bowling balls with nipples.

:snerk:

Definately Secret Fire by Johanna Lindsay (sp?).  It was my first romance novel, too...I think I was in fourth grade?

Wasn’t the hero in the Johanna Lindsay book with Bettina named Tristan?  I remember reading that and thinking that no one would *really* name their son that.  And then Tristan Rogers began playing Robert Scorpio on General Hospital…

Ahh, the odd bits and pieces the brain hangs on to.

I think the series involving different authors was the Delaneys.  There were modern Loveswept titles and historical titles as well.

Iris Johansen, Fayrene Preston, and Kay Hooper.

DS,

YES!  You are my Bitch Hero!  Now it’s a matter of sifting through the books to find the specific ones I’m thinking of.

Rokk on!

From these plot details I now realize I don’t have to feel guilty for never having read any Lindsey. Yuck! 

Yet when these books originally were published, the mere fact that they had any sex in them--even bad, violent, nonconsensual sex--was darn exciting.

We’ve moved on, and thank goodness.

“believe 76” How appropriate!

Now that I think about it...what is this thing with (usually evil) Russian princes?  Huh.

What’s with pairing pedophilia and incest with rape fantasies and bondage?  That hardly seems fair--in fact, it seems like the pairing of gay marriage and bestiality from the conservative’s slippery slope argument.  You’re comparing apples and decomposed roadkill.  Two are rightly illegal and intensely immoral (assuming the incest in question is pre-age-of-consent).  Rape *fantasies* (as opposed to the reality), on the other hand, ARE wide-spread (heh heh) among women, and mild bondage is the most tried-and-true “spice up your sex-life” practice, even among vanilla couples.

“wide spread”

(giggle)

Yah. Rape fantasies have nothing to do with reality (or, not a lot to do with it) and, as it’s just a fantasy, I find it perfectly OK. The “slippery slope” arguement (from rape to pedophilia to… sheep!) is just silly.

However, I do have a problem with bodice ripping. What’s with men ruining a perfectly good lingerie? That stuff is expensive! None of my rape fantasies involve the destruction of property, thankyouverymuch.

:)

I have a soft spot for Johanna Lindsey books, and yes, not only have I read Secret Fire, I actually liked it. But then again, I like those books where the heroine is dressed as a boy half the book and the hero begans to doubt his sexuality. LOL. Guess we all have our guilty pleasures.