Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

I had a poor girl in today going over her summer reading list for school and not finding anything. i finally asked her what she would want to read and she had no problem telling me, nor picking out a bunch of books. Her grandmother said she agreed- rather she read what she wants and READS or has to read something she doesn’t like and doesn’t read at all.

I agree.  Great post.

I love Jezebel’s Fine Lines column (because I love YA) and was tickled to see them review BREAKING DAWN.  I actually couldn’t stand these books.  The protagonist makes me physically ill (as in, oh god, I can’t believe she’s so spineless, she’s letting herself BE ABUSED by her vampire husband and she thinks it’s love!).  The sort of love that is idealised in these books is alpha + doormat gone to the extreme and that has never been a trope I liked.

I haven’t read BREAKING DAWN (hell, I couldn’t get past TWILIGHT), but many of my friends have (I fully acknowledge its cracktastic powers) and they were all universally disappointed and/or appalled by BREAKING DAWN.  Bella loses and/or sacrifices nothing to get what she wants; what is wish-fulfillment if there there is no work to be done to get it?  It makes for a bad novel, that’s what.

Bella loses and/or sacrifices nothing to get what she wants; what is wish-fulfillment if there there is no work to be done to get it?  It makes for a bad novel, that’s what.

Especially when the theme of the first three novels is all about sacrifice, and the sacrifices Bella is willing to make. She made her choice, chose to make those sacrifices… and then gets everything she would have had with the other choice, but only in a more awesome and perfect way?

Sigh.

May I direct your attention to Shinga’s condensed version of Twilight?  I myself didn’t hate the book (I was merely underwhelmed), but I busted a gut reading her summaries.

http://shinga.deviantart.com/

Enjoy

Problem with this “awesomeness” argument:  the book apparently isn’t.  Awesome, that is.  From everything I’ve read about the series—and there seems to be a lot of fairly intelligent blab about it recently—the novels suck on many levels and become all the suckier as the series progresses.  I know Meyer sure as shit didn’t impress me in the interview I saw.

Have I read the stories?  No.  I’m not into YA books, primarily because I’m an OA with precious little time to read OA fiction.  But when there’s a lot of smart squeal about a book’s crappiness, I tend to give those assessments some credence.  Ideology aside, young minds should be stimulated by good books, not crappy ones.

So I’m gonna save my imaginary boner for something more worthy.

Someone was responding to a posting on Dear Author and included this link:

http://community.livejournal.com/lion_lamb/1651773.html

A funny and quick retelling of Breaking Dawn as told by Edward Cullen.  Makes the whole entire look atrocious.

I read Twilight but haven’t read the others, but I think there is a serious problem when the books’ “conservative ideology” portray domestic abuse in a harmless light. Edward Cullen is, beneath all the gorgeous fragrant breath and sparkly skin, an abuser. The excuse for it is that ‘he can’t help it’ because it’s his vampiric strength and nature. And Bella tolerates it because ‘she loves him more than anyone ever in the whole history of the whole wide world’.

I mean, for the love of vampires, she gets bruised, beaten, and abused, and the excuse the Cullens give her parents is that she “fell down a flight of stairs and through a window”?

And NOBODY I’ve seen is willing to debate this point. It’s been all “OMG Twilight is the best thing since sliced bread.” If something had changed in the course of the books, if Bella (or anybody) for a second went “hey, this isn’t a great way to have a relationship, let’s talk about it,” and then decided (after intelligent thought) to continue, then MAYBE it would sit better with me.

It’s the utter lack of acknowledgment that bothers me the most. Bella is spineless; she never questions the situations she finds herself in, and things work out for her anyway.

But I suppose this is why parents should at least be aware of what their kids are reading, and in this case intervene, or at least point out that Bella and Edward’s relationship really isn’t healthy.

Oh, and you want snark? I bring two:
Cleolinda’s chapter by chapter synopsis of Breaking Dawn is howlingly funny.
http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630150.html
Taking the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test with Bella and/or Edward also yields gut-busting (and possibly tears inducing?) results:
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

[quote=Wryhag ]Problem with this “awesomeness” argument:  the book apparently isn’t.  Awesome, that is.  From everything I’ve read about the series—and there seems to be a lot of fairly intelligent blab about it recently—the novels suck on many levels and become all the suckier as the series progresses.  I know Meyer sure as shit didn’t impress me in the interview I saw.

Very true. Stephenie Meyer’s prose is clunky, simplistic, and more purple than a royal warerobe. In Twilight, she had one adjective per body part per character, and used that one and ONLY that one. Actual plot doesn’t even rear its head until 75% of the way into the book. Not to mention there are heinous typos (of the ‘slipped finger’ variety mostly) that should have been caught if someone had hired an editor.

This, along with the aforementioned subtext, irritates me to the point where I have to reign in the urge to yell at people at the bookstore when I see them buying Twilight.

(Sorry for the double post, but I had to address this and couldn’t find an edit function)

I have hesitated to say much about this series because I didn’t want to be killed by rabid teens… but I had issues with it.

First… Edward is nearly 100 years old and Bella, as we begin, is 17 (I think).  Erm.  Since when is immortality a get-out-of-pedophilia-free card?

And I soo agree with JJ… this is NOT a healthy relationship. 

I vastly prefer PC and Kristin Cast’s books.  *shrug*

I was in love with melodramatic, painful love at that age, too.  I’m just not certain it was something that would have been wise to encourage.

Pish posh.

I am a 16 year old.
(I can all ready hear your middle aged eyebrows rising)

I read Twilight. I liked it.

Yes its contrived, obvious, and illogical, and most readers know this deep down...... but....but.....but......

I still almost killed a girl trying to get my sweaty teenage hands on the third book.

*sobs quietly in corner* Its an addiction.

I tell you… no I ORDER you to slap your kid silly if they start gushing about Twilight.

Its good but: Its just a trashy romance novel. It was never pretending to be anything more.

Oh, and Edward a pedophile? Thats a tad too fanatical for the Sensible Grown-Ups Against Teenage Literature campain.
He is 17 physicaly and mentally...... at least, thats what Stephenie Meyer intended......I.....think.......

[quote=Molly]Oh, and Edward a pedophile? Thats a tad too fanatical for the Sensible Grown-Ups Against Teenage Literature campain.
He is 17 physicaly and mentally...... at least, thats what Stephenie Meyer intended......I.....think.......

How about “abusive”? Would you agree to that one, at least?

Well I agree that the relationship is abusive..... and Edward can be annoying with his whole “I’m agonised that your agonised” whatsit.....but the example wasn’t a very good one.

EVERYBODY knows that it was the evil guys fault that Bella “fell down a flight of stairs”. Edward wouldn’t DIRECTLY hurt her.

Just shut her off from friends and family and cause her to want a life of eternal darkness.

EVERYBODY knows that it was the evil guys fault that Bella “fell down a flight of stairs”. Edward wouldn’t DIRECTLY hurt her.

Except when he throws her into a crystal punchbowl. But that was for her own good too! He was protecting his woman!

Damn straight!
The guy deserves a medal!

..... I really cant be bothered arguing about Twillight. As stated before:

It’s just a trashy romance novel. It’s not meant to be clever.

And if it WAS meant to be clever I find that very very sad.

People have been making a big deal out of any possible religious agenda Meyer may have hidden in the Twilight books.  There’s nothing in there.  Because Meyer herself is religious doesn’t mean she’s trying to sneak brainwashing messages into her novels.  If the media hadn’t picked up on Meyer’s choice of religion and made a big deal of it, nobody would be searching for hidden messages of that sort.  Lots of YA books are written as fundamentally conservative, and it’s not usually a problem.

The books should be taken as they are, to stand on their own merits.  Or, y’know, lack thereof.

Edward really, really, really does NOT come off as emotionally 17 and it’s completely illogical to think he could be.

I had a problem with that.  From the first meeting he is hostile, condescending, and acts far older than he appears.  In fact, my god-daughter refused to read beyond Twighlight because she said there were no realistic teens in the books. 

She’s a smart kid.

I would also agree that using “it’s just a trashy romance for teens” as an excuse… *shudder* ... is lame, and insulting to romance.

So I am neither a teenager nor a middle aged woman. However I am still a fan of the books.

The poor writing accusation I give to you. Heck, Stephenie Meyer gives that to you. She’s said a million times herself that she is still working on the writing part of her storytelling.

Edward and Bella’s relationship is not physically abusive. In fact he never intentionally hurts her. As much as we want to dismiss it, his superhuman strength is part of the character she created. It must be taken into account. In your typical modern romance involving the “alpha male” character, you’re going to see the male lead protecting (or at least trying to) at some point by attempting to physically remove her from the situation. In normal instances this would simply be him pushing her behind him. This reflex is the same for Edward. Except he’s really fucking strong. The whole punchbowl incident is him pushing her aside. Would we rather he let her be devoured by his brother? The only other time she is physically hurt by him is in the last book, and it is frankly rough sex. Literally. That is all.

The claim of pedophilia is somewhat valid. Technically speaking he is WAY older than her in the sense that he has been alive longer. He is still essentially a teenager. It is basically the only life he has ever lived or known. Even though he has lived so long this is the role he perpetually lives. Several times in the series one character or another comments on Bella as being an “old soul” and other similar things. Her mother even says that she never really was a teenager. Here again, we have an intentional character trait that Stephenie Meyer has developed so that the relationship between the two could make a little more sense to the close minded. I’m actually really surprised that this is such a huge stretch of the imagination for people considering this century’s prevalence for huge gaps in ages in the dating world.

Despite what I have said above, amazingly I really didn’t like Bella’s character for the first couple of books. I enjoyed the stories and her quirky view of her world, but there was always a certain weakness about her that bugged me. That being said, I thought that her character was amazing in this last book. Its like watching someone come into their own and thinking “FINALLY!”. If you were dedicated enough to read the first three, it was so worth it to read the fourth. She basically kicks ass. She stands up for herself and what she loves most and still maintains that quirkiness that appeals to the awkward teenager in all of us.

You really can’t judge this series as separate books. After reading all four it needs to be looked at as one story. Without the sometimes emotional retardation of the characters that leads to the stupid decisions, you wouldn’t get the satisfaction you do when it all works out. Because there really was no guarantee that Bella would get everything she wanted, especially when it seemed like she already had.

Is Edward overprotective? Yes. Does he sometimes cause Bella pain? Yes. Is it intentional? No. Is it mostly emotional? HELL YES.

But, really, what relationship doesn’t have a little emotional angst? Especially in a book?

Simply:
Edward=wounded soul
Bella=the one person who can make him happy (vice versa)
Plot: How can he keep this person in his life without bringing her down with him? Hence his repeated fuck ups (mostly involving his attempts to remove himself from her life for her own good) that result in her emotional pain. Once he realizes he makes her happy all the pain is from outside sources.

Sorry about the super long comment. I need my two cents to be out there (or fifty, as it were).

By the way, I have not found any religious nonsense in these books thus far.

What she said.

*smirks in a selfsatisfied way and stands behind “God"*

Yes.... I’m that really annoying kid you wanted to punch in highschool.

=^.^=

.....except I still believe the relationship was just a TAD unhealthy, mainly in books 1-3 (so: for most of the series)..... but it wasn’t ever the characters fault...... exactly........ BLAME LOVE!!!!!

Ok… that sounded cheesy.

Mellisandra- Thank you!! That was so much better than the dreck that was in the book. My daughter will love it. She damn near threw the book at a wall when he fucking sparkled. “Vampires don’t SPARKLE!!” I have to agree.

There is so much really good YA out there, I don’t understand why this crap is so loved by the readers. I just don’t.

I have to agree with who ever said they wanted to stop people at the store from buying Twighlight, however, since I work at one, I feel they can throw their money away if they want. And I am so glad I didn’t have to work the release party.

I cannot believe that I am going to leave a comment here regarding these books when I have been so good about not commenting on them anywhere else.  But I lurve my SBTB women so much that I feel like I need to be honest about my reaction to these books and hope a discussion of these books can be had here without devolving into a screaming match of Edward 4-Eva! or Die Bitches!  This will actually also be my first comment on this site even though I have been lurking...well, for quite some time.

I have to admit I really love this series.  I think the series brings up some interesting ideas that it has been fun to personally wrestle with and to discuss with my friends who have also read it.

Do I like the character of Bella?  Not often during the series.  Do I think she is very relatable?  Nope, not often.  Do I find her character problematic in what she chooses to do versus what I might personally choose?  Yes.

But, as one of my friends and I discussed while reading the series - there are a ton of classic female characters that we neither like nor relate to in books that we have loved.  Many of the arguments I have read regarding Bella could be put to Jane Erye as well as other famous and beloved female leads. 

Do I find parts of her relationship to Edward problematic?  Somewhat.  However, I think that what constitutes stalker behavior and what constitutes abusive behavior needs to be determined both by the world created by the author and by the reaction of the recipient of the behavior.  What do I mean by this?

Bella’s accident during Jasper’s abortive attempt to attack her is not abuse by Edward.  To compare that to abuse is analogous in my mind as comparing the driver of a car as an abuser if the car he is driving with their girlfriend was hit by another car due to the other driver’s fault.  Yes, Bella gets hurt.  Because of Jasper’s loss of control over his bloodlust and Edward’s miscalculation of how much force would occur as he pushed Bella away from Jasper’s attack and collision with him. 

Spam word - Works95.  The twilight series does work (95% of the time), at least in my opinion. :)

Also, the “stalker” stuff?  Well, I really believe that stalking has less to do with the actions of the “stalker” and more to do with the reactions of the intended recipient.  There are lots of things that could be called innocuous which could (realistically) be considered stalking if the recipient feels stalked.  ON the other hand, if the recipient welcomes the attention of the “stalker” - it ain’t stalking.  As a good friend once said - in the movie Say Anything - the only reason Lloyd Dobbler isn’t a stalker when he hangs outside of Diane’s house holding a boombox over his head and blasting Peter Gabriel into her entire house is because Diane finds it romantic and she loves him.  If she really had wanted to break up with him and never see him again, the next scene should have/would have been the police serving Lloyd with a restraining order. 

As for the bruises after the first night of sex?  Umm, not abuse.  A combination of Bella seeming to be a woman who like her sex a bit rougher that some may, and Edward once again needing to re-examine his understanding of how strong his is when “caught up in the moment”.  But the author makes it clear that Bella didn’t have any pain during the actual act, bruises so easily that she often forgets what she might have even bumped into when she finds a bruise on herself, and isn’t hurt/sore even as badly as she has been after a day of exercising hard. 

Look, after reading all the “live and let live” feelings expressed her about threesomes (during the Decadent review conversation), anal sex and other types of sex that is put into books we have all loved and read (which I have agreed with entirely) - it becomes hard for me to understand why this weak example is being held up as why Bella is an unaware abuse victim.  She likes what Edward does with her in the bedroom.  She is 19 and married when they do it.  Not unaware.  Not a victim.  Even if I don’t want to be anywhere near that bedroom. 

Why do I love these books?  Because I believe that Stephenie Meyer has created a world I find fascinating and characters that I want to follow along with as they grow and change.  She is a great storyteller.  Even if I don’t always like what the characters do or choose.  Even if I don’t relate to each character. 

I don’t read books in order to find characters that I relate to.  I read books to discover and explore worlds I have never thought about, to read events I will never experience and to see what someone else thought was something worth writing down.  There are lots of books that I love that I cannot stand the main characters.  That I hate the choices made by characters I love.  And yet, the books are still compelling.  Fascinating.  And they make me think about the world more deeply.

One review I read about the Twilight Saga highlighted one of the series strengths to me.  That review said that Twilight was about Finding Love, New Moon was about Losing Love, Eclipse was about Choosing Love, and Breaking Dawn was about Protecting Love.  All kinds of love are explored in these books.  Romantic love, parental/child love, platonic love.  And Ms. Meyer has created a world of vampires, werewolves and other magic that allows the exploration of those themes to have a wide range.  Edward is fascinating because of the tension of his vampire-ness alongside the remnants of his humanity.  Bella and Edwards relationship is fascinating because it is damaged and disturbing.  And hot and true at the same time.

If Edward wasn’t a vampire, if Ms. Meyer was not so skilled at creating a whole new vampire canon and world that this story took place in - then I think some of the criticism about the action of the characters would be more accurate.  However, I think that Ms. Meyers created characters who both stay true to who they are throughout the storyline while also growing and maturing by the end of the series in authentic, yet interesting and surprising ways.

I have had discussions regarding these books as to what constitutes a powerful woman, is Bella a feminist (and does she need to be one or want to be one, since there are literally millions of women who consciously reject that label), what constitutes free will, why vampires are such a fascinating character in our literature, why the classics of Romeo and Juliet, Jane Erye, Wuthering Heights, Pride and Prejudice, Midsummer Nights Dream, Merchant of Venice and other classics are worth reading and re-reading and what influence those books obviously had when Ms. Meyers was writing the series. 

And, to top all of that fabulousness off - I do find Bella and Edward to have one amazing hot relationship.  Ms. Meyer has written some of the best steamy passages of two people wanting to have sex, make love, be together in ways that really astounded me.  She (in my opinion) captured exactly what is sexy about not being able to consummate a relationship and all the foreplay and longing that goes before the sex ever happens.  And I loved that they waited until they got married to have sex and that the sex was mind blowingly awesome.  I loved that all the married couples in the book were having mind blowing sex and that no one found sex to be dirty, or shameful or anything else.  I loved all the dry humping and kissing they did because it reminded me a lot of what was so exciting about all the before sex things we all did when we were teenagers. With our first loves.  I loved the fact that Rosalie/Emmett, Jasper/Alice and Carlisle/Esme had been together for decades and still were madly sexing it up.  This was one of the few books I have read lately where both the male and female character were both sexual, and equally excited about their sexual relationship and open and trusting one another.  Where they didn’t have some hang up about wanting to have sex.  Yes, at the beginning Edward is afraid of hurting Bella with his super human strength during actual intercourse, but once they realize that he will be able to control that part (which ever stopped them from wanting one another) then they sex it up all the time.

Am I trying to say that only married sex is good?  Heck no.  But it was nice to see the main characters in a book have a sexual life that was fabulous and natural and exciting without the shame or “oh no - he has to stop and tell her to enjoy getting oral sex because she is worried about her smell or losing control”.  Bella is actually the one who takes control of their sexual life and I thought that was awesome. 

Time magazine had a wonderful review of the twilight series that I would highly recommend reading.  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734838,00.html

Now so saying all of this (and I apologize for writing a book on the subject) - I have also found some of the snark about the Twilight Saga to be some of teh best written and enjoyable snarkiness I have read in quite some time.  And I love the fact that while many hated the last book - they are so passionate about it.  Because I am passionate about the books I love and hate and I know that if I book makes me think enough about it to write and share what I thought with others - well, it was pretty damn good - even if I hated it. 

If you haven’t read the series - I hope you might give it a shot.  It is most likely at your local library - so don’t feel you need to buy it.  But try it.  I never thought I would like it and it is now on my re-read over and over again shelf.  Even with all of its issues.  It is a not so guilty pleasure that I feel lucky to have.

Oh, one more thing.  I think it is an interesting comparison to look at Bella/Edward and Elizabeth Bennett/Mr. Darcy.

In Pride and Prejudice, Mr. Darcy thinks that Elizabeth Bennett is “tolerably” attractive but nothing special.  And becomes more and more drawn to her despite her lack of fortune, her family’ embarrassing behavior, the fact she has never travelled anywhere before she visits Charlotte. 

He visits his aunt only in order to be close to Elizabeth Bennett.  He cannot keep away from her no matter how much he tries to argue with himself.  He is kind of an asshole. 

He is hot.  He is rich.  His is witty when not being an asshole.  His behavior causes some serious painful repercussions for Elizabeth and her family. 

And he is one of teh greatest romantic leads.

And a lot of the description I just gave describes Edward and Bella as well.

Huh. Agnes and Vlad’s relationship in Terry Pratchett’s Carpe Jugulum sounds much better than this. For one thing, it’s funny. For another, Vlad is yummy, peacock-embroidered waistcoats and all. ("He gave her a toothy grin, and on a vampire this was not pleasant.") It’s also pretty fraught because they’re both intrigued by each other, but Agnes has to make her choice based around the fact that Vlad is a vampire. And she does. And she rocks for it.

Also, it’s Pratchett, and Pratchett is without exception awesome.

Yes.

*solemn nod of head*

Pratchett is awesomness.

...teehee.... I love Mort the best… probably because of all the extra Death scenes (the character not the “Grarg! Die!")......

Sorry I got a bit distracted there.

I think that- while insanely hilarious- that Carpe Jugulum is not the best example. That was a send up of Vampire romance..... oh wait…

.... it was a joke wasn’t it?

Damn my lack of sarcasm detector.

That was a send up of Vampire romance.

Yup I think it starts out as one - but ends up as something more than that. It is a real relationship between characters - both of whom are uncomfortably aware that this isn’t how it’s supposed to go.

I’m a 23 year old who loved Twilight, liked the next 2, and hated Breaking Dawn (I agree with the whole “Bella got everything she ever wanted and more without having to sacrifice anything.” If I were older and had a teenage daughter, I would let her read the books. I would also point out the unhealthy relationship and all the bad points. However, I still liked the books, even if I didn’t approve of the characters. Someone here has to have read a book at some point where they didn’t approve of the characters’ actions or behaviors but still liked the book. I think both extreme ends of the spectrum ("OMG Edward is the bestest ever!” vs. “OMG Stephenie Meyer must die!") are taking this book waaaay too seriously. Like it or don’t, let your kid read it or not, but this book is in no way life-altering and shouldn’t be viewed as such.

Hmmmm I’m starting to think that the only reason that people hate the Twilight series is because of the fanatical fangirl/boys.

They send up such a flare of obsession that people start violently disagreeing with them, simply as an allergic reaction.

Hate is a word filled to the brim with passion. And that reminds me of passionfruit, which reminds me of passionfruit flowers, which reminds me of allergies, which brings to mind allergic reactions.

The facts are undeniable.

While I love the sentiment expressed in the paragraph, I think it would have been better applied to a book that actually was awesome. Those books are awful.  I read the first three at the prodding of a friend and wasn’t too thrilled… Bella kept whining because everyone kept staring at her (because she was “pretty”, yet she wasn’t at her old school, which I guess means Meyer is trying to say the people of Forks are ugly compared to the people of Phoenix?) When she wasn’t, she was constantly ditching her friends from school in order to hang out with her boyfriend (which let me tell you, I HATED girls like that in high school) and thinking only about how pretty he is. I wasn’t going to read the fourth book, but then I started hearing rumors of how horrible it was. Naturally I had to see for myself.

Oh, it’s bad. REALLY bad. It’s not just the conservative ideology throughout this (and honestly, the conservative ideology just kind of flew out the window when Edward wanted Jacob to knock up his wife.) The main plot point just doesn’t even make sense. The vampires can’t even produce tears, but apparently Edward can produce not just sperm, but supersperm. He gets her knocked up instantly. There’s never any explanation as to how it happened or how someone who has been dead for approximately 100 years can produce live sperm still. The reader is expected to just accept it and move on.

Add onto that the fact that perfect skin = white skin ("I never got over the shock of how perfect his body was - white, cool and polished as marble.” pg 25), crappy writing ("His golden eyes looked as if they would have tears, too, if such a thing were not impossible."), Edward being a condescending jerk who looks down on his wife because she wants a lot of sex ("You are so human, Bella. Ruled by your hormones.")… the only redeeming moment of the book was when the baby was going to eat it’s way out of Bella, but nooooo, we didn’t even get the pleasure of seeing that.  Grrrr.

i’m with molly, and a lot of other people too (like “God” up there). i know it’s poorly written. so is harry potter! i know there’s issues with the character’s personalities, pedophilia, abuse, whatever.

doesnt change the fact that it’s CRACK. i’m 20 years old, very rarely read YA anymore, but i picked up Twilight to see what the fuss was and was honestly unable to pull myself away for more than a few hours at a time. i couldnt resist it. same thing happened with Stephanie Meyers’ other book, The Host.

That being said, i haven’t read Breaking Dawn yet. i’m on the waiting list at the library. but as long as her writing style or whatever hasn’t changed, i’ll probably be sucked in just as much, to the point where i KNOW IT’S BAD but zomg it’s SO GOOD CAN’T STOP READINGGGGG.

Heather said:

When she wasn’t, she was constantly ditching her friends from school in order to hang out with her boyfriend (which let me tell you, I HATED girls like that in high school) and thinking only about how pretty he is.

And there we have what killed the first book for me. I was hoping for a nice coming of age story involving vampires, because that was the setup. But then Edward walked in and there went that. It seems like I know way too many people in real life who don’t feel they’re worth anything without a man in their lives. I don’t want to read about people like that in my fiction, either. Plus, I’d been trying to read some of Christine Feehan’s Carpathian books, which also had the same basic girl-can’t-be-anything-without-her-vampire-lifemate theme and I just couldn’t deal with it anymore. But my sister loves the books, and I do see the attraction for them. They just make my inner feminist shriek and howl in pain.

But I suppose this is why parents should at least be aware of what their kids are reading, and in this case intervene, or at least point out that Bella and Edward’s relationship really isn’t healthy.

I haven’t read these books, though I’ve seen them promoted a ton around town (costume party promo party, not a bad idea, anyone?), but I tend to agree with what Lyra was saying in the above quote. Personally, I’m not one for censorship, but when the time comes that I have kids, I plan on going with the method of one of my friends who literally talks her kids to death about the media they consuming, forcing the kids to analyze whatever messages may be present in it.

As for the pedophilia analogy, I must say, as someone who reads a lot of vampire fiction, it’s a VAMPIRE romance. “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” was sixteen or so when she fell in love with a 200 year old vampire, and, yes, the age difference does present inequality, but so does any relationship with an immortal person, don’t you think?

Also, I hesitate to critically assess the “abusiveness” of vampire fiction as equivalent to real-life abuse specifically because the same rules don’t apply. The Anita Blake series (of which I enjoyed many of the earlier books) has many instances of violence between sexual/love partners, but then again it’s a two-way road and it’s implied that both parties kinda like it. . . Since I haven’t read any of the books discussed here, I can’t say it’s the same thing.

The trick is, teach your young adults to analyze what they read. I certainly read my share of crap as a teenager, but I didn’t go buying into it either.

I read Twilight because so many people told me it was great and wonderful and fabulous and I had to read it (multiple exclamation points). 

So I read it. 

I didn’t like Twilight. The writing was bad, there were gaps in logic, Bella is the type of heroine that I actively dislike (low self esteem, subsumes self in a man, actually kinda stupid).  Edward is cold, pasty, sparkly and feels like marble.  Just...ewww.  There were many reasons.

I respect the fact that people like this series.  I just think it is utter drivel.

I will admit that I liked Twilight. It was a fun popcorn book that kept me entertained (and that’s all that I look for in a fiction book really).

Having said that, I absolutely LOATHED New Moon. Every single character in that book was just too stupid to live.

I kept hoping that one of Bella’s stupid stunts would get her killed just so I didn’t have to read another page of her whining. I mean really, I understand that she is a hormonal teen who just lost the “love of her life”, but come on!!! Blanking out for weeks? That’s just going overboard with the drama.

And Edward!!!  Head/Wall “Oh, woe is me!! I’m a vampire and the “love of my life” has just died. Even though I don’t actually know for a fact that she’s dead. I just heard it second hand from my sister who hates the chick. But, I’m still going to go get into trouble with the big bad vampire mobsters in Italy and have them kill me. I’m not even going to go and check for myself in person. Because I am a whiny emo vampire that can’t bear the thought of living through eternity without this stupid mortal child.”

Jacob was just a stupid whiny werewolf who needed to get over himself. He knew from the start that Bella was in love with Edward, so his bitching and taking his anger out on Bella was childish and immature.

ACK! Itchy trigger finger…

After reading Twilight, the only reason I was even thinking about finishing the series (other than the fact that I had Eclipse in the house) was because it was only four books and I figured why not.

But, after reading the spoilers for BD, I decided that I definitely was not going to be reading any further in the series. The only reason the books didn’t land in the trashcan was because they were borrowed from a friend. I am eternally grateful that I didn’t spend any money on them.

Ideology aside, young minds should be stimulated by good books, not crappy ones.

If you’re going to do that, you have to do it carefully. I’ve still, in middle age, real problems with reading a book that is given to me, unless I’ve asked for it.  I think my mum probably worried about my taste in books, and gave me gifts of the ‘correct’ books to read. (She was a librarian, and then an English teacher.) And my taste mustn’t have run to the books teenagers were supposed to be reading.
It’s impossible, of course, to say that my mum wasn’t right: if I’d stimulated my mind correctly throughout my childhood, I might be a better, more intelligent person. But perhaps I’d have got bored, stopped reading, and turned to a life of crime…

I thought Breaking Dawn was fine - it’s like one of those popcorn movies, where the second you come out of the film you go ‘Wait a minute, that didn’t make sense...’ But while you’re watching it, you’re carried along by the action, and it’s fun. With Breaking Dawn I was carried along by the narrative in the same way.

And really, I’m happy my 15 year old would spend a day of her holidays reading a 700 page book. I know people spit on the argument that Harry Potter turned children into readers, but that was my personal experience with two of my three children. You could argue that, even if they’re not well written, books like these are gateway books, that allow children to think of themselves as readers - as people who enjoy books.

People have been making a big deal out of any possible religious agenda Meyer may have hidden in the Twilight books.  There’s nothing in there.

Oh, there’s no agenda.  Twilight is just cloyingly sweet in the way a good deal of the teenage LDS female population west of the Rockies is cloyingly sweet.  Meyer hasn’t grown out of it.

While I love the sentiment expressed in the [original post], I think it would have been better applied to a book that actually was awesome.

Indeed.  It actually shocked me to see “awesome” as applied to this on SBTB.

I’d let my kid read these if she were of a mind to (if she were a bit older than 5, I mean), but I’d make sure to read them, too and then I would take her to lunch and we would have a very long and frank discussion.

While I love the sentiment expressed in the paragraph, I think it would have been better applied to a book that actually was awesome.

Several people have said this, but I’m pretty sure Jezebel didn’t think it was awesome In context, it seems like the review says that CS Lewis is conservative and awesome, but Twilight is conservative and boring.

I only read Twilight, and while I didn’t think it was particularly boring, I didn’t love it. I was particularly bothered by the constant expression changes and eyes going hard/eyes softening thing they all did. It was like the characters were grimacing and mugging wildly through every scene. Anyway, I love vampire romance dearly, but I’m a little too old for books that end in a big prom scene :)

@that girl who compared Lizzy/Darcy to Bella/Edward. Never ever do that again! Both pairings have nothing in common. Also Darcy never visitted his aunt to be close to Elizabeth, he did not even know she was there until he was told by his aunt. Bella liked Edward from the beginning, because she’s shallow and found him perfect and hot, even when he behaved like an a**hole. Same goes for Edward, he was always attracted to Bella because of her smell. Darcy only found Lizzy attractive when he saw that she had wits and was a very intelligent woman. Bella is none of these. And Lizzy, well, she only liked Darcy after he became a true gentleman.

I hate the fact that Smeyer compares Edward to so many classic literature leading men.

Also, because people where mentioning pedophiles… the story of Claire and Quil—I loled. I can’t believe Smeyer has a degree in English literature (reading the books - or book, I only read Twilight - you can’t definitely tell). Clare Quilty is the other pedophile mentioned in Lolita, Humbert Humberts fiend for the “affections” of Lolita. Get a clue, woman. Imprinting on infants is not *love*.

That’s a way of defending it, I guess.  My problem-- and I’m thinking most readers’ problems-- with the book wasn’t that it pushed any specific ideology, but that it just plain let me down at every single turn.  Oh, Bella doesn’t have blood lust because the hawt sexx0rs cures that?  Super.  Jacob wants to bone your vampire baby?  Everyone’s a winner, I guess.  I had more problems with the plot problems than Bella getting married young, let me tell you.

Haven’t read the books, don’t intend to. Did want to posit that maybe the pedophilia accusation be replaced with an accusation of ephebophilia instead.

Oh, please. I’ve never read this series and I occasionally read YA. But your worried about an abusive relationship between a vampire and a mortal? Most teens I teach know the difference between reality and fiction- well-written or not.

However, I have just finished a Romance novel by an author I have always liked where the hero, which I should put in quotes, tries to get even with his former girlfriend by getting her to fall in love with him again and then attempts to have her child taken away! And the lucky young woman gets to marry this bozo in the end. Unfortunately I’ve seen way too much of this type of garbage lately. This is an HEA?Sadly, there is far more reality to this type of plot than the YA book mentioned, and I might mention I think mental abuse is just as sad as physical abuse.

HDU compare Bella/Edward to Darcy/Elizabeth. And HDU compare Harry Potter to Smeyer. HDU both indeed.

They just make my inner feminist shriek and howl in pain.

Word to that.

Regarding the comparison of Bella/Edward to Lizzie/Darcy… there is no comparison. The relationships could not be more different. Bella and Edward fall in love with each other for shallow reasons (looks and smell--ew). Lizzie and Darcy initially reject each other for shallow reasons, but come to love one another when they get to know each other better.

Bella adores Edward even when he is a jerk to her. Lizzie does not fall in love with Darcy until he stops being a jerk.

I think “Pride and Prejudice” is one of the best romances ever written--if not the best--and “Twilight” is drivel. I never made it past the first book, so I can’t comment on “Breaking Dawn.” But I read everything Austen ever wrote. It’s funny that the 200-year-old novel pleases my inner feminist, and the modern-day novel offends it.

HDU compare Bella/Edward to Darcy/Elizabeth. And HDU compare Harry Potter to Smeyer. HDU both indeed.

I’m appalled by these questions, appalled!  Clearly, someone is not reading her Austen very carefully.  I cite the following examples for your enlightenment.

“… but his friend Mr. Darcy soon drew the attention of the room by his fine, marble pale person, totally hawt features, all that and a bag of chips attitude and the report which was spoken in the ladies room within five minutes after his entrance, of his being all OMG sparkly like a gansta’s diamond studs in the sun.”

AND

``Which do you mean?’’ and turning round, Darcy looked for a moment at Elizabeth, till catching scent of maple syrup smelling hair, he coldly said, ``She’s awright; but not smoking enough to tempt me; and I am totally not in a mood at present to give consequence to any chicks who are not worth a dollar lap dance to other men.’’

My favorite comment on the entire thing to date is

“I can’t say much. At that age, I loved Flowers in the Attic.”

Truer words. We didn’t have the Net, but we all read it feverishly.

...and into every generation, a crack-fiction book that sucks mightily but is adored above all others must fall....

Password: were98. Were not! Were only 13!

I am deeply ashamed and I have now realised the error of my ways. Austen and Rowling could never live up to the genius that is Meyer, after all she knows that twu love = stalkery/abusiveness

Ephebophilia: attraction to adolescent sex partner

Perhaps everyone else knew…

Depends on how you’re using “awesome,” or, in this case, how I interpreted awesome.

Gotcha.  I was thinking of OSSSUM in the Bill & Ted sense, which is really the only way I think of it.

Candy and I, we are staunch defenders of your right to enjoy whatever you want, including and especially Really Bad Entertainment. We’re both weak for some seriously cracktastic reading.

I totally agree, and I have said everywhere that I liked Twilight.  It is, indeed, cracktastic.  At the same time, I have issues with the book and its message--

They just make my inner feminist shriek and howl in pain.

Yes!--and the fact that I fully believe that it was unintended (which, to me, is HEWWWWJJJ).

I can’t say much. At that age, I loved Flowers in the Attic.

Yeah, me too.  But at least the author knew what she was writing and she wasn’t writing it to YA.

And I must cop to my 15-yo self having a huge cracktastic crush on The Hoff.  And Knight Rider’s being reincarnated this fall!  Yes!

I am deeply ashamed and I have now realised the error of my ways. Austen and Rowling could never live up to the genius that is Meyer, after all she knows that twu love = stalkery/abusiveness

If Mr. Collins isn’t a manipulative stalker, no one is.  I can just imagine the walls in his cottage near Rosings just covered in crazed imaginings, not unlike those he penned to Mr. Bennet, and splattered with his own blood and body secretions and dead bees from the hives he kept.

If Austen had written a sequel to P&P;, Collins would have no doubt eliminated Mr. Darcy with much flying though the trees at Rosings Park.  Then he would have taken over Pemberly, where upon he’d marry either bereaved Elizabeth or more Meyerish, the untouched teen sister.  Monster babies would be born faster than you could say, “It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a hundred year old virgin vampire in possession of a good fortune must be jonesing for a jailbait shortie.”

Be careful, you might give Meyer ideas. Don’t you know she stalks the internetz looking for her worshipers and her enemies alike.
However your comments FTW! And that sequel needs to be written, if only for the lulz. You should contact Meyer’s publishers after all they’re pretty much used to publishing misogynistic crap.

... Cough, bitter and holding a grudge...who, me? Why certainly not!

You know, I’ve already written the manuscript on the back of credit card applications and in the margins of Trader Joe receipts!  I sent it to my editor, my agent, and Gerard Butler (so hawt!) telling them that it was a surefire bestseller, but oddly none of them have never responded.

However, Stephanie Meyer and I both agree that hard work and the occasional teenage fantasy wet dream are really the key to success in the literary world, so I’m currently working on a sequel to SENSE & SENSIBILITY, with Col. Brandon as a brain-eating (but totally sexy!) zombie who hearts teenage Marianne.

My code word:  men49—a little on the young side for Meyer’s heroines!

All this talk of vampires and Pride and Prejudice has got me thinking.  J.R Ward doesn’t have nearly enough characters (snort!).  She should totally create a new Brother...Dharcy!  He could set lessers on fire with his smoldering gaze.  Just like in P & P, he’ll act standoffish and withdrawn towards his heroine before succumbing to her charms.  I know, I know; it’s a totally new direction for Ward, but I think she can pull it off.  And maybe if we have a heroine based on Lizzie, she’ll actually be interesting!  It could work!

Anyone got a good title?  All I can think of is Lover’s Cravat.

Marta- thanks to a customer, I had already added you to my “gotta buy before i leave the bookstore and lose my awesome discount” list.

After the above comments, I think I will just bow down in total embarrassment for not finding you hiding in the fiction section before this.

Always glad to help, Sarah :) Just to be clear, I am not the author of the Flowers in the Attic comment (although I certainly devoured the book along with all the other girls in 7th grade). I just thought it summed up the whole situation well.

Hi, Ev, thanks, yep, my books are considered general fiction, so you may find them there should you wander over to that section.  (Since my last name starts with an A, I’m conveniently near the Anthologies - Erotic.)

Melissandre, gotta give a shout out to Colleen Gleason for an Austen-inspired vampire series, the Gardella Vampire Chronicles, which is suitable for teens.  In fact, I had one of Colleen’s books on my table and a teenage friend saw it and snatched it away from me.  Colleen’s young heroine is not a wallflower, a doormat, or a whiner.  It’s not really relevant, but her book covers are beautiful.

I believe that all of the debate on whether or not Twilight really IS awesome, simply supports the original quote.  The ability to look at the book, to think about the characters--that’s awesome.  The freedom to do that for ourselves, THAT’S awesome.  The book itself is what it is--some folks think awesome (my teenaged daughter, for one,) some folks think it’s good but over rated. (Stephanie Meyer is a sore point for me personally, for purely narcissistic reasons I will not go into now, but, like so many things, I blame my mother!) Either way, the paragraph gave me a literary boner myself.

Because awesomeness promotes thinking, and thinking promotes becoming the kind of adult we all want more of in the world: the kind who can understand the message of a book — or a movie, or a blog post, or a presidential candidate — and decide for herself whether she agrees.

I’m unqualified to enter the debate on whether the books are awesome or awful since I haven’t read any of them.  I comment only as a shout-out for the need to encourage critical thinking in all ages.  I’m always surprised at how willing many people (not all!) are to take things they hear or read at face value.  It isn’t cynical to say that every message has an agenda or a bias. 

I advocate endlessly for romance novels.  I’m as biased as the detractor who dismisses them as mindless, formulaic trash.  I’m just biased on the counter viewpoint. *g* I don’t expect anyone to listen to my passion for the genre and automatically say, “By God, she must be right.” I hope that someone who previously thought evil, negative things about romance, might listen and think, “Hey, maybe there’s something to what she says.  I’ll read a romance and see what I think.”

Totally agree that every generation has its own cracktastic/craptastic literature—I was a Nancy Drew girl myself.  Oh, and Sue Barton (Student Nurse, et cetera).

Every teenage girl I’ve talked to about the Twilight books, love ‘em or hate ‘em or somewhere in between, assures me that she knows the difference between fiction and reality ("Like, Mom, he’s a vampire!  Duh!").  They are not taking Bella as a role model, nor would they *really* want Edward for themselves in real life (although Robert Pattinson?  Hellz yeah, they’ve wanted him since he played Cedric Diggory!).  Sure there are some squeeing, even rabid, fans out there, for books that many people think are just not very good, but that’s true among adult readers as well.  (Cassie Edwards, anyone?)

These are the “trashy” books, and some really are!  We just can’t agree which ones.  There is a wide range, to suit a range of taste in readers, and I agree with SB Sarah that it is awesome to give teenage readers the same thing.  To trust them to read these books, even enjoy them, without warping their minds—just like we managed to read books where heroines FORGAVE, EMBRACED AND MARRIED THEIR RAPISTS without foolishly thinking that was meant as a behavioral model we should follow.

Young Adults, that’s what they are.  They don’t need their pleasure reading censored, or screened, much more than we do.

[That said, I was VERY pleased why my own Young Adult Woman, with a Borders gift card to spend, chose Wicked Lovely over Breaking Dawn.  She will finish the series eventually, but she’s in no hurry.]

I have been truly horrified by some of these comments.  There were far too many willing to pass judgement when it is obvious they have never read the books.  Pedophilia?!?  Yes Bella was young, but she was old enough to make her own decisions before the marriage.  Yes Jacob imprinted on the baby.  But if you had bothered to read the book (or paid attention when you did so) you would have noticed that Meyers explained how imprinting on a child worked.  Until maturity the relationship/feelings/emotions felt by the wolf are those of brother/father/friend (how this will change at maturity, I don’t know nor do I really want to).  But so many posters are willing to judge something they have never read based solely on the opinions of others.  I have read and enjoyed all four books.  Were they well written? No. Did I particularly like Bella? No. While reading the books, I’d notice the plot gaps and extreme leaps in logic (even for a world filled with vampires and werewolves).  If you cannot separate reality from fiction, you have no business reading fiction. 

But I felt the books served their purpose.  They provided a temporary escape and at least mild enjoyment.  They got millions of teenage girls to read something other that the latest issue of Seventeen.  I usually enjoy reading the responses on this site, but I found more than half the posts/reviews/etc. to be about as applicable and reliable as the teen fangirls.

I’m in agreement with Miranda C. You really do have to keep in mind the context which this is all written in. It may seem like a good idea to apply it to reality, but this is a world that Stephenie Meyer created. It’s not the real world, but fantasy. If the YA readers aren’t clued into the fact simply by its shelf location (YA Sci-Fi) then hopefully the youth of this day and age are able to realize that a book about vampires and werewolves (shape-shifters, technically) is going to require a step aware from reality.

Yes, the book involves human teenagers and some real life experiences. But the balance is so heavily in the unreal side of the story that it shouldn’t be in anyway a guide to life. That being said, I totally am behind those parents who want to take the time to explain healthy relationships and the difference between reality and fiction to their teens.

My next comment is kind of a SPOILER so if anyone hasn’t read BD and cares do not continue…

As to the problem of Edward’s sperm and Jacob’s imprinting on the resulting child:
As much as I maintain the denial of religious connotations in this series, there is most definitely a mysticism incorporated. Its a novel about vampires so of course there will be lore, myths and superstitions. That being said, Stephenie Meyer did a pretty good job of creating a world within which these circumstances could occur. Even her characters were amazed at Bella’s pregnancy, but her world had its own myths and legends that proved that this was not an unheard of thing. Are you seriously sitting here questioning the possibility of this happening in a book about vampires? Holy crap! Its a book, for crying out loud. A science-fiction one! That’s like the best genre you could ever write within for the unrealistic.

This is the value of literature in mind: anything is possible. It allows the mind to explore the impossible and make it possible.

Tolkien made up his own damn world, why can’t Stephenie Meyer?

Sorry for the tangent. Going back the mysticism, for those who have read BD, there is clearly a subtext of destiny. All the events in all the books have been leading up to this ending.

1. Edward’s attraction to Bella. Yes, it is her smell (get over it). Why is she so profoundly attractive to him, when he’s been alive for a century without experiencing this with any other human?

2. Jacob & Bella’s attraction to each other. Jacob, being a teenage boy, is attracted to Bella in that way. She is not attracted similarly. She is attracted to the way his presence makes her feel. Despite her love of Edward there is this inexplicable pull between Jacob and Bella. He can’t stay away from her, even though he knows he can never have her. And she can’t stay away from him even though she knows it hurts him. She mentions that he completes her family.

3. Jacob imprinting on Renesme (shitty ass name btw). This explains the pull. He is attracted to the part of her that will eventuallycomplete him. Similarly for her (seeing as how her child is part of her). The whole point of imprinting in Meyer’s world is that the mate will somehow enhance the bloodline of the shape-shifters. Imprinting on a human-vampire hybrid with telepathic abilities=probably a step up in the food chain.

4. Awkward Bella-->Bad Ass Bella. She had to be that uncomfortable awkward teenager who inexplicably did not feel like she fit in, because the one place that she really did fit in was with the undead. We needed to see how uncomfortable she was as a human to understand why it is so right for her to be a vampire. She basically comes into her own. She’s good at being a vampire.

So here we have our destiny. Edward and Bella destined to be attracted to each other because of what they will create together. He finally finds someone who he can love and live forever with without having to feel guilty, because she fulfills her destiny when he turns her. Simply put, she was meant to be a vampire and have a child, who was meant to imprint with Jacob and improve the Black line. Both sides gain: the shape shifters will eventually have a vampire-wolf-human line (capable of immortality, strength, speed, amazing mental abilities) thats your bridge between the two groups, and the vampires get a new member who is a shield against any vampire power involving the mind. Edward and Bella get to be in love (and have hot rough sex every night) forever. Win-win. Its the fate of Meyer’s world. Bella was meant to be a vampire.

Clearly I ran the midnight release party at my store.

By the way, I would totally want my child to read this series as opposed to other YA books with titles like Hotlanta. Or that stupid Clique series with the really bitchy looking 13yr olds on the cover. I do not want that to be my child one day *shudders*

I love trashy books as much as the next trashy book lover, but I just can’t get into Twilight.

It’s just so badly written (normally I can let this go but: ‘scintillating arms’? That’s just wrongness) and the pacing is horrendous. There’s no plot in any of them for about three quarters of the book, at which point you (I) realise that it has not been worth the wait. I’d be willing to let Edward’s weirdness go if the author acknowledged that he was a huge freak, but she insists that he’s the perfect man. She compares him to a bunch of literary romantic heroes (and Willoughby, wtf?) and says that he’s better than them all. I bring this up because she’s released the first chapter of Midnight Sun (the first book from Edward’s POV) in PDF form at her website, and it is a) the first Twilight thingy that I have ever read all the way through! And b) really, really creepy, in that it’s Edward thinking through all the ways that he can kill Bella (and any innocent bystanders!) and get away with it. It’s unintentionally hilarious, because that is just what my mind is like, but it’s also seriously disturbing, because Edward comes across as a complete sociopath. He spends all his time reading people’s thoughts and thinking how petty and insignificant humanity is (don’t keep going to high school, then!) and how his family are supposedly superior. And then, when it comes to not killing Bella, he doesn’t do it for her sake, or for the sake of all the random high schoolers he’d have to kill to get away with her murder without revealing himself, but because Carlisle (his vegetarian vampire daddy) would be disappointed in him.

I don’t know about you, but this is not my ideal man.

And wrt not censoring what teenagers read/trusting them to see the difference between truth and fiction etc. Yes, that is important. But it’s also important that (say it with me) books are not written in a vacuum! The entirety of pop culture is sending out these messages to girls and women, that dangerous men only need the love of a good woman to tame them/Beauty and the Beast nonsense. The truth of the matter is, if you put yourself in a situation like Bella has, where you are consistently at the mercy of someone who has to practice constant self-control so as not to hurt you, you have put yourself in a constant danger, and eventually you will get hurt.

As I said before, I’m not going to fire-bomb the publishers, and this is certainly not even the worst offender in this sense. But I’m not going to say it’s ‘awesome’, or celebrate it as a piece of fiction or an example of popular culture.

I can be concise. Someday, I will practice that skill.

And you couldn’t even pry ‘The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe’ from my cold dead fingers.

Miranda, don’t tell me imprinting is not creepy. I mean, the werewolf will be brother/father for the kid and later becomes the lover?! If this doesn’t sound creepy and incestious to me, I don’t know.

And I only mentioned pedophelia because of Claire (toddler) and Quil (15 year old). The names are an allusion to Clare Quilty I’m pretty sure.

And I don’t see ephebophilia in the books, pedophelia - maybe. 26 year old Jacob impriting on Nessie...when they’re getting older it will get weirder...... Also, relationships like that never happen in real life.

shewhohashope says:

And wrt not censoring what teenagers read/trusting them to see the difference between truth and fiction etc. Yes, that is important. But it’s also important that (say it with me) books are not written in a vacuum! The entirety of pop culture is sending out these messages to girls and women, that dangerous men only need the love of a good woman to tame them/Beauty and the Beast nonsense. The truth of the matter is, if you put yourself in a situation like Bella has, where you are consistently at the mercy of someone who has to practice constant self-control so as not to hurt you, you have put yourself in a constant danger, and eventually you will get hurt.

(Emphasis mine)

Thank you thank you thank you. That is exactly what I’ve been trying to say (albeit much less eloquently). Twilight perpetuates the submissive loving woman stereotype, and it bothers me to no end that a lot of people are willing to handwave the implication of it away as “we know fact from fiction,” “it’s just a trashy novel. it doesn’t mean anything” (isn’t it part of this blog’s schtick to think critically about the “trashy novels” in the world?) and “he’s a vampire, he can’t help it”.

The latter reminds me way too much of friends in abusive relationships, only substitute “a great guy” for “vampire”.

CAPTCHA: sense43. Yes, there is sense here, I hope.

relationships like that never happen in real life.

Exactly, in real life.  I do agree I find the idea of Quil and Jacob swithching from familial relationships to romantic ones with the children a little creepy.  But, then again, I do not exist in a world where imprinting is possible.  Those of you who do have experience in this magical, nonexistent world and can so willingly condemn it in absolutes, please explain. 

and “he’s a vampire, he can’t help it”.

The latter reminds me way too much of friends in abusive relationships, only substitute “a great guy” for “vampire”.

Have you read these?  This “great guy” doesn’t hit her because he can’t help controlling his temper.  Bella is attacked and Edward shoves her out of the way of the charge.  As a result, she falls into a punch bowl.  During a night of rough sex, Edward leaves bruises on a woman who admits to being bruised just by bumping into objects.  Any other harm that has occurred to Bella has been through others (NOT Edward).  I don’t think that Bella fits into most people’s view of a feminist.  But she was the one who chose her life and is HAPPY with it. Her parents did not raise her to believe she needed a man to complete her (in fact, both discouraged her at different times from marrying/becoming serious with someone so young).  Please quit taking individual events out of context and trying to make them into something they are not.

It’s awesome that the kids love reading.  It is awesome that kids are gobbling up stories.  It is NOT NOT NOT awesome that they can’t or WON’T read their summer reading lists.

The summer reading lists are to give kids a basis for what’s happening in the school year.  For a good foundation of fiction that pretty much has a timeless quality and FAR BETTER technical writing than most of the YA out today.

That does not mean they shouldn’t enjoy the YA.  That doesn’t mean that they can read WHATEVER they want on their own free time.  But SCHOOL TIME is MY TIME.  I do NOT want irate parents coming at me because I went over the Twilight series and they abhor it.  I do not want a school system coming down on me because I read, to horny 8th graders, about a series that has some heavy sexual overtones.  My job in the classroom is to give them what they WON’T pick up for themselves.  To introduce things that aren’t so sparkly and shiny that they would snap up.  It’s not JUST about getting kids to read.  But to get them to read in a critical thinking manner.

I promote reading.  But I HATE HATE HATE it when people come down on school reading lists.  There are REASONS for those lists.  And they aren’t to bore kids to death!  Ugh. 

I’m sorry if I sound snippy.  I just spent a week revising my booklist for the year.  I read through a ton of YA out there and most of them take the same themes from more classical books, dress them in modern trappings, toss in some pop culture reference, product placement, and call it done.  There’s more to teaching literature than that.  :(

Lyra already said it, but shewhohashope, WORD.

And wrt not censoring what teenagers read/trusting them to see the difference between truth and fiction etc. Yes, that is important. But it’s also important that (say it with me) books are not written in a vacuum!

Books are not written in a vacuum, or READ in a vacuum, and decisions are not made in vacuums.

Of course, the solution is 1.) more discussion and 2.) for me to get off my butt (or back ON my butt) and write my own YA novel, as well as a good deal of other people who have been annoyed by these aspects of the novels.

Or, you know, more promotion of Wicked Lovely.

captcha: always22—is that the store next to Forever 21?

To clarify my comparison btw Pride and Prejudice and the Twilight Series.  It was not a comparison of quality.  It was a comparison of the type of unrealistic wish fulfillment that both books hold. 

Point of fact: I think it can be argued (easily) that the events in S Meyers fantasy world have more of a chance of every happening (in the fantasy world she created) than the events in Pride and Prejudice.

Please (anyone here) give me a real life example in the late 18th/early 19th century class conscious England of a super rich, well born, educated man falling in love with a fairly poor and not super hot girl from an “only ok” provincial family who is actually very ill mannered, clearly after his best friend for best friend’s money (at least that is Mrs. Bennett’s motivation) and has a slut of sister who elopes with the man who tried to seduced and elope with super hot, wealthy guy’s baby sister when she was only 15 years old for her inheritance. 

Yeah, that guy would chase after the eloping pair, give Mr. Wickham mad bank and go back to plead with Elizabeth Bennett once more to make his dreams come true and marry him.  I’m sure that happened all. the. freaking. time.

Not. 

Twilight is cracktastic.  It is wish fulfillment on a large basis.  But then, much of romantic literature is. 

Many of us might prefer Jane Austen’s stylistic treatment of the events in her books over S Meyers stylistic treatment of her fantasy world and chracters.  But to say that Pride and Prejudice isn’t blatant wish fulfillment is to deny the events as having any relation to the time period in which they were set, the characters as described or why the book is so romantic. 

Hope this clears up my original point, which was NOT that S Meyers is the next Jane Austen.  That would be blasphemy.

Miranda, don’t tell me imprinting is not creepy. I mean, the werewolf will be brother/father for the kid and later becomes the lover?! If this doesn’t sound creepy and incestious to me, I don’t know.

Have you ever read Emma? Jane Austen? Emma falls in love and marries her older-brother-figure who has been a guardian and mentor to her?

There’s a long tradition of this exact sort of relationship in English fiction. It just doesn’t usually start with infants.

There are REASONS for those lists.  And they aren’t to bore kids to death!

I never had summer reading lists in school, and I didn’t need them. I read the “classics” on my own. (I was a massive nerd.) And, keeping in mind that I say this as a person less than 30 days away (God willing) from a PhD in English literature, why ARE some of those books chosen?

Sometimes I look at summer reading lists, and I wonder why in God’s name the books have to be so depressing, misogynistic, or dull. Sometimes I can see the point (I hatehateHATE Lord of the Flies with a passion that is really quite unreasonable, but I can sort of see why it might be valuable reading). Other times, I’m just left bewildered. (The Old Man and the Sea? Sure, you can read it in 45 minutes, but dear God. That’s 45 minutes gone forever.)

So, and not asked snarkily at ALL, what do you go for in creating your lists? What are you trying to get out of them?

For me, snarkhunter, I go for fantasy.  I’m a huge fan of a story taking you away.  I try to steer damn clear of anything remotely depressing.  If there is SORROW that is fine.  But if there is a fatalistic quality, where there is no hope in humanity and no hope in God (Catholic school teacher here), then I don’t want it.

The lists the Diocese comes up with, while working with the schools, is at least 5 books in every possible genre.  From mystery to fantasy to light reading.  They KNOW that kids want more than just the classics and they strive to provide that.  Heck they even put Harry Potter on there.  Granted the list encourages the parents to read WITH their kids when providing the books.

For myself I cover stories and books that I can cross reference with all walks of life.  I need music and art and history and dance and building and pretty much EVERYTHING to put into a book.  I don’t just teach the story but what went into the story.

Many kids will enjoy reading.  My job is to get them to THINK about what they are reading.  And hopefully some of that transfers to the Twilight books.  But I think not sometimes. :(