Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

“What I want to know is: how many published authors--especially authors who write genre fiction--have advanced degrees in, say, English, Linguistics or Fine Arts?”

Jennifer. Crusie.  (Who rocks.)

Wow, what a crazy-cool variety of responses, although if an “advanced” college degree is a prereq for opinions to posess worthiness, my little BFA falls short of the mark.  Even with six minors.  Anyhow, post why (or why not) you like the book, and you’ll always get my attention.  And yes, the opinion of someone whose tastes seem to parallel mine can influence my future purchases.  Before stumbling across this blog, I’d never heard of:  Jennifer Crusie, Emma Holly, or Judith Ivory, to name a few I’ve tried and enjoyed lately.  I’ve been surrounded by plenty of the “don’t romance novels cause sweaty, hairy palms and get an automatic expulsion from MENSA” attitude, and it’s great to have somewhere to go, where romance reading does not automatically equal ignorant and inbred.  So, I guess my point is some “non-professional” reviews hold more sway with me than the official literary opinion.  I don’t always agree with Sarah & Candy’s reviews, but I always get a good idea of whether a book they review (good or bad) is something that I will like.
Having said all that, I think MJD needs a pair of moose antlers.  I had a college friend who no one could ever tell if he was serious or tongue-in-cheek, and (like the Monty Python “When I’m wearing the moose antlers, I’m dictating” bit) he often had to explain that he was kidding, but would put his hands up and say “moose antlers!” when we missed it.  Cleared things up nicely.
I said all that to say this: I don’t have a cool graphic for you all, but SB Candy and SB Sarah, I dub thee “Worthy of Reviewing Books for My Personal Perusal”, and when I take over the world, we’ll make the title global.

I’m a published author and I used to review. I stopped because I was reviewing like an author, and not a reader. Readers are, by definition of the word, the only ones who can (in my opinion) give a fair review. If I take off my author hat, I can try to give a review, but I find myself influenced by three things: editing, grammar, and if I know the author or not. (mostly yes, it’s a small world) I tried to give fair reviews, but I caught myself being either too glowing or too critical. Authors make terrible reviewers. They are often asked to make blurbs to put on other author’s books so that readers can recognise names and see praise, and maybe this has led some of them to believe they can review all books.
This is the advice I got from a very big name author when my first book came out. He said to me, “Whatever you do, don’t read your reviews. Get out of the habit of looking for them. Know that you will get good reviews and bad - and the good ones will be uplifting and the bad will be crushing...And none of them matter.”
I didn’t listen. I read my reviews and send off thank you letters to reviewers who stay up late at night to finish a job they signed up to do for free - but this is true - be it good or bad, I appreciate the reviewer’s effort. I don’t think an author has the same outlook as a reader when it comes to reading for pure pleasure and then giving an opinion.
So I am at odds with MJD’s opinion. But I won’t attack her for it. Because in my book, everyone is entitled to their OWN OPINION.

Degree: electrical engineering
First Novel: “Harvey & Eck” Zumaya Publications, 2005

I actually ran a contest on my blog to find Regular Folk reviewers/bloggers to read my book and tell the people what they think. Found three. They are in the process of reading the book now. One of the reviewers posted an HNT snap of himself reading my book. It about made me want to die laughing. Whoever thought I’d see a guy who was not my husband doing that? And with my book no less?

I am covering their every murmur on my blog, when I’m not duly recording lesbian dreams, that is.

of course authors are nervous about the fact that anyone who can read a book can also write one. Why do you think so many of them get snarky about that write a book in a month thing? Nothing scarier.

There is the emotional bushwa (sorry, a professional term. Every profession has its jargon) of having a book published that actually makes it harder for me to be a good reviewer now. I am far more acutely aware of the person behind the book and know that all that talk about “it’s not you, it’s the book” is just blather (another pro-writing term).

Jenny Crusie does indeed have a Ph.D.  She read hundreds of romance novels to talk about the gender differences in writing by men vs. writing by women.  Then decided she could write the damn things better than those she’d read, chucked academia (good for her) and became a best-selling author.

There’s a few more out there, but none with her success.  I’d like to be one, but that means I have to get off my ass and actually start writing.

Actually I thought MJD’s notes in RTB are great. Never mind that some contradict others--they still all make sense. She does eventually make it clear that everything she says is of automatic moose antler-hood (thanks for that Shari).

This is such an interesting topic and so much more interesting than my work today that I’ve decided to break my silence and pitch in.

My beat-the-new-year-blues treat to myself was a copy of Judith McNaught’s latest, Every Breath You Take.  When I had finished I scanned a few sites on the web, curious to hear what other readers thought of it.  One of the sites was JM’s own bulletin board, and I was fascinated to read her post about reviews on Amazon and the effect they had on her: http://bbs.simonsays.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=020151;p=8

Fascinated because she touches on one of my pet peeves: people who complain badly.  Your airline loses your bags.  Fine.  Write a letter of complaint, register your dissatisfaction, get compensation, whatever.  Do not shout at the poor girl at the counter when you arrive at your destination but your bags don’t.  It wasn’t her fault and you shouldn’t take out your anger (however justified) on her.  Similarly, I get incensed by reviews which focus on the author and his or her failings in a very personal way, instead of focusing on the book. 

No, I don’t believe only other authors’ opinions should count, any more than I think that I can’t comment on the work of my doctor, lawyer, airline etc etc just because I’m not a published author or qualified physician, attorney, pilot (or all four, like the guy in that show, what was it called … Pretender?).  These people wouldn’t have jobs if it weren’t for patients, clients, passengers and, oh yeah, readers.  But I think comments should focus on the service offered, not the person offering it. 

[steps off soapbox]

About the author’s having PhDs. I believe that Eloisa James also holds one as well.

LV Vicki

May I humbly propose a plan for the “advanced review system of expertise”. The authority of reviewers would be ranked according to their qualification level, results and calibre of institution attended. An accurate and impartial assessment of each individual’s competence to review could thus be made and assigned a precise grade on a standardized numeric scale from 0-9. The potential reviewer’s field of research would be independently validated by no less than three impartial authorities who would assign a specialism category indicated by a four letter code. Reviewers would only be entitled to comment upon aspects of a novel which lie within their officially recognised area of expertise. Thus, an associate Professor (grade 8) of Feminist Liberation Literature would receive the ranking Fell8.

Some potential names of candidates follow:

Eloisa James (Professor of English Literature)
Michelle Jaffe (Phd in comparative literature)
Stephanie Laurens (Phd in Biochemistry)
Alison Scott (Phd in American Studies)
Catherine Asaro (Phd in Chemical Physics)
Nita Abrams (Phd subj. undetermined)

Following a review by the appeals committee, the rejection of Julia Quinn’s application to review Medical romances has been upheld on the grounds that she did not complete her medical studies at Yale. However the committee has decided that in view of the distinguished reputation of her undergraduate institution and her final Art History exam results she is entitled to provide reviews of level 0 ("informed but non-authoritative commentary") in the field of Dance Imagery in Lumanist Design (Dild0). Furthermore, given the outstanding quality of her presentation, if Ms. Quinn completes her studies at the appropriate level, we would welcome the resubmission of her application to be upgraded to a specialism in Techniques in Tonsillitis Treatment (Titt1)

I think it is clear that the advanced review system of expertise (aka A.R.S.E) will provide a satisfactory alternative to the inexpert value judgements of the current arbitrary system of reviews which is totally subject to the whims of personal taste.

LOL—A.R.S.E gets my vote!

For the record, I have degrees in Theatre Arts, Education, and Educational Administration. And what do I do in life? Teach English and write erotica!

What DON’T I do? Review books. You guys have a thankless job...no matter what you write about a book, SOMEONE’s bound to disagree with you. That, however, is exactly why I LIKE reviews of my books. Both the good and the bad, and I read every one of them I can find. Sadistic? Sometimes (have you read one of my books? ).

Seriously though...this discussion has merit. Like/don’t like my book? That’s fine...personal choice is what it’s all about. I DO wish the writing standards were a little higher in some places (at least, if you’re going to like/dislike my book, get the names of the characters right!), but other than that? Review away!

Diana

If you put something out for other people to read you should expect they’re going to have an opinion on it, and this opinion may not always be favorable.  If a review points out that your plot has a lot of loose ends or the historical license you took knocked the reviewer right out of the story—well, that’s something to remember and watch out for in the next story.

I’m not a published author, I just write ‘foefiction’ which makes fun of a long-running comic strip.  All my ‘reviews’ are from readers and I appreciate the constructive criticism I occasionally get from them.  Who better to assess it than the audience it’s written for?

If all an author wants is applause and praise then s/he should self-publish and limit readership to his/her mom and best friends. 

LC

I’m all about the “moose antlers” idea.  I thought MJD’s comments on the other blogs were hilarious and I felt like a lot of the people who were getting genuinely upset with her were SO totally missing the point of what (I thought) she was trying to say.

I believe Laura Kinsale also has an advanced degree in chemical engineering, and Diana Gabaldon has a PhD in Biology.

So we’re all bright gals.  Me, I only have a BS degree (most appropriate), but I review books under my birth name for BooksForum at ForumsAmerica.  I don’t have a PhD in history but I did minor in it and I have always loved it, so it majorly annoys me as a reviewer when people get it wrong.  Not little things--I don’t care what kind of bells camels wore on their harnesses in 17th C. Persia--but big things like repeatedly misusing forms of address in a Regency era novel, or having the medieval “Robin Hood” type character wear black silk for her nightly forays scaling the walls of the castle and distributing gold coins to the peasantry.

I review as a reader. I expect authors to pay attention and not yank me out of the story by jumping POV all over the place and I expect them to do their research. I expected this long before I put hands to keyboard and wrote my first novel.  I am willing to suspend my standards and disbelief only so far for the sake of the story.  After a certain point, the story alone may not be enough if the book is rife with errors and writing problems.

The only time I gnash my teeth over reviews of my novels is when the reviewer gets it wrong.  One kept referring to Smuggler’s Bride being set in colonial Florida, when it was set in 1843 Territorial Florida.  Florida was never a colony of the US.

But she liked the book, so I cut her some slack.  Not everyone’s a history wonkette.[g]

All I have to say on this subject(mostly because I’m burnt out on talking about reviews so I have nothing stunningly brilliant to add--not that I ever did *snort*) is...two days later and I’m still inspiring. I feel all warm and gooey inside. Someone hold me.

O/T:

Degree: laziness
First Novel: “500 Perfectly Good Excuses to Justify Your Laziness” Self-Publishing-R-Us Publications, 2010

Just wanting to say that EvilAuntiePril should have a blog of her own. My mouse pointer is hovering over the Bookmark button for the day her blog is born.

Yours,
Maili the Temporarily Braindead Sloth

If advanced degrees in literature, etc. were required to write reviews, I think most romance writers would be S.O.L., since I think very few academic-types respect this genre.  Or, at least, the ones I’ve spoken to don’t - their heads are generally too far up their own asses.

I have a high-school diploma stuffed in a drawer somewhere---probably with plot notes scribbled on the back.  That’s it for me.  (Which probably comes as no surprise to my editors.)

And MJD could sleep with my husband and I’d still read her books. Hell, I’ll trade him for MJD arcs.

And I’m still suffering from PTSD from the last time I dared have an opinion, so I’m not even going to comment on that.  *takes pills*

Oh how I love my Auntie Peril.

Hey, Reese, some of us academics not only like romances, but founded our careers on the wonderful things.  We’re not all bad, just mostly bad.  But I don’t think academics like/dislike romances at a greater percentage than the normal population--rather, their “authority” is given more weight when they say something about romances.

It occurs to me that people are often talking apples & oranges when it comes to reviews.  There are Book Reviews, which are serious analyses of a book’s literary merit.  And sure, I think you probably should have some sort of credentials for those, if only to get the jargon right. 

And then there are reviews for readers, which are less about literary merit (though that might be a factor), and more about why a reader might or might not want to read a book. 

Kind of like the difference between a news article and a letter to the editor on the same subject. 

Or not.

Maili!  Where have you been?  You post, then disappear again!

Does this mean I’m not allowed to gush about Kinsale or incite the hatred of The Entire Internet by ripping on Gabaldon anymore, at least until I get a couple more degrees?

Bummer. Fellow readers seem to genuinely love booktalk that has actual passion in it.

Jenny Crusie does indeed have a Ph.D.  She read hundreds of romance novels to talk about the gender differences in writing by men vs. writing by women.  Then decided she could write the damn things better than those she’d read, chucked academia (good for her) and became a best-selling author.

Actually, she’s only ABD, which, for you lucky non-academics, means that she did all the work up to her dissertation, but has not completed it, and is therefore, not yet a Ph.D.  I had a number of friends who got stalled at the dissertation stage and left academia without their degree.  Always seemed a huge shame to me, because the dissertation should be the fun part of grad school (okay, it wasn’t for me, but only because I was so burned out I was writing to simply not let me diss chair down); it’s the one moment you really have the chance to say what you want and get a degree for doing so.

As to MJD’s comments, I felt she was unspeakably rude to Karen Scott, which created an ugly edge to her humor.  I have not even been motivated to buy her last few books, not just because they’ve become so thin, inside and out. 

Not that anyone cares, but here’s my response to Angie’s excellent column (am I alone in feeling that too often RTB is a little vanilla?):

OK, you’re talking about the review for Wolf Tales, so I have to tell you that Kate specifically said she didn’t care if people posted good or bad reviews, she just didn’t want that review to be the only one people saw. She did not ask for people who hadn’t read the book to make something up.

I haven’t read Wolf Tales so I don’t have an opinion on the book, but those are the facts on the Amazon review situation. She didn’t ask for praise.

But why is it the author’s place to determine WHAT she gets on Amazon? Once a book moves into the public realm, it becomes a public concern (not exactly “property” because of copyright laws). And this is exactly what the author wants, right? She wants her book to circulate publicly, to be available publicly, to be read publicly, as widely as possible. But only on certain terms — right??

Now I understand and am frustrated over the fact that authors are, to some degree, constrained by their publishers in certain ways; that many have no creative input, for example, when it comes to cover design or marketing strategies. But that’s also part of the contracting relationship between publisher and author.

Regarding the relationship between author and reader, however, the contract is more informal, but perhaps more important as an author’s longevity in the industry goes. I read Keishon’s review and the blog entry explaining the request to have it deleted. While not one of the page long reviews some of us obsessives are wont to write, it was, IMO, a reasonable review, which, contrary to many on Amazon, actually presented concrete reasons for the reader’s dislike. Not that she cares, but the author’s interference in the reader reviewing process made it VERY unlikely I will EVER pick up one of her books, no matter how many positive reviews she gets.

As to the issue of who should be able to review, I’m confused: I have a Ph.D. in literature, am a professional writer, and read Romance for fun. Do I have the right to review Romance in any legitimate way? Or do I need to keep my concerns about increasingly shorter hardbacks (with hardback prices) being published these days, for example, to myself?

OMG MAILI POSTED A COMMENT. I feel like I’ve seen a vision of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Though given this site, perhaps Bitchbag of Guadalupe might be more appropriate? Hmmmm.

I second her opinion about EAP needing her own blog, by the way. As it is, I’m thisclose to mailing her checks and naked pictures of hot soccer players to ensure she keeps posting regularly on this forum.

I hate to say this, but all those authors whose advanced degrees are in non-Englishy/Languagey/Artsy Fartsy crap? Do not count. We’re looking for relevancy as well as expertise. Laura Kinsale and Stephanie Laurens, for example, cannot count as authorities on books. Catherine Asaro gets a break for her SF novels, though.

And Beth: according to some authorities, as an unwashed heathen (OK, I’m pretty sure you wash--with lavender-scented bubble thingums, even) who not only has no advanced degrees but who has the temerity to review books while unabashedly trying to write your own, the circle in hell reserved for you is especially foul. Like, forced-to-watch-Ann-Coulter-suck-Joseph-McCarthy’s-dick-twenty-four-seven foul. (Or would that be the other way around? Somebody pointed out to me the other day that she has an Adam’s apple. Eeesh.)

Shannon: DO TELL about the time you got PTSD for disagreeing with someone. Was it on this forum? Or somewhere else? *ears perked for good gossip*

And on to the subject of reviews, and tangentially, MJD:

Yes, many reviews suck. Sturgeon’s Law holds steady for this particular field, as it does for so many others. But that doesn’t mean that MJD’s very sweeping initial claim is any less silly and shitful for it, simply because the logic doesn’t hold up. I don’t need to be a mechanic to assess when the brakes on my car have failed, just as I don’t have to be an author to point out that every sentence really doesn’t need its own ellipsis. No, really… it doesn’t. I agree with other things she said subsequently, but her initial comment was still an eyeroller.

I admit it, I have become addicted to reading reviews on Amazon.  I don’t know anybody with the same taste in books as me, and I have this compulsive need to discuss things that I read (I think it’s b/c I’m a librarian/former English major), so I started reading Amazon reviews primarily after reading the book to see what other people thought.  I continue to do so, because it’s a freaking hoot.  I spend my time giggling and sneering, “Did this person read the same book as me?” If I have to read something along the lines of “It was no Anita Blake...” again, I may pull my hair out, but really so much of the commentary, positive or negative, is crap, and I wasn’t even aware of the games people play with it. My actual point is that reviews are for readers (and potential readers), and except for the brilliant EvilAuntiePeril, little credit was given to us readers for having enough brainpower to distinguish between crap and an actual well-thought out review.  It’s fun to compare and contrast but that’s about it.  It is up to each review reader to make an informed decision, and hopefully they will not be put off because a book is not as good as “Desire’s Blossom, the best book, evah.” Had to stick that in there.

And on the question of whether or not only writers should review, who decides who is a writer.  What you’ve published, the content, the length?  Who put it out?  I was published in my high school literary mag.  I also have had reviews published in School Library Journal, a national publication.  Am I enough of a ‘writer’ to review other’s works?  How about all of those writing blogs? Couldn’t they be considered writers of a sort? Ergo, they are qualified to review.  Whatever.  Oh well, I’m off to write some mean reviews on my own blog.  Kidding,kidding…

My stats...I have an Associates in Computer Informations Systems and I’ve been a professional editor since age 15, when I would proof my classmate’s papers for five bucks each. My husband has a Masters in History and works as a security guard. So much for advanced degrees.

I tell my authors all the time, a review is an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the First Amendment allows them to publically express it. Authors are people, too, so they can review if they want.

A well-done review, whether good or bad, tells exactly WHY it made their panties wet or caused them to yarf Corn Nuts, citing specific examples. Then the authors know what they did wrong or right, and the publishers can go, “Oops,” and fix it. Those are what I expect to see from professional review sites.

Anyone can review. But if you are reviewing for a professional group, you should be a professional, not just say ‘This book sucked monkey butt’ and feel that’s a sufficent review. I think this sort of thing has really cast a shadow over reviews in general.

Just one short peep:

Even though a writer may not have a degree, they may have almost completed the equivalent of a degree by being a voracious researcher. There is no way to quantify that, of course; but writers (who are any good) tend to be research mavens. Authors who do their research should count, IMHO. Of course, one would have to take points off for the nonacademic nature of the research and the tendency to call oneself an expert after a lot of lay research…

*ducks to avoid flung objects*

Okay, I have an M.F.A in Creative Writing and went to a snooty boarding school.  Can I please please be a member of A.R.S.E?

Seriously though, I remember having a similar conversation about qualifications at RWA-Dallas.  My response to the should have/shouldn’t have quandary was, unless asked, I don’t bring up my educational background, cuz to be perfectly frank, getting the M.F.A was fine, helpful, fun even, but it doesn’t really teach you how to write love scenes that will curl toes or how to create worlds that would make Frank Herbert say, “holy shit that’s cool.” Uh, as soon as he came back from the dead.

I was taught to write lit; dead white men’s lit.  To do this we read dead white men’s lit (any other kind of lit, i.e. African-American, Asian-American, etc were electives and not part of the required curriculum).  I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that those mentioned with PhD’s in some sort of literature were taught to analyze dead white men’s lit.  Which sort of makes us unqualified to review romance, I guess.

It’s all too apples and oranges, too subjective and too illogical.  Do you honestly think that doctors being reviewed don’t have good buddies on the review committee who make certain allowances based on how hard med school is or how many kids that doc has headed for college?  Does that make the reviewer any less or more qualified?

Besides all of that, some of the most thoughtful, well-written, spot-on reviews I’ve ever read were reader reviews.  Naturally Smart Bitches are included in this category.

I really don’t think that some arbitrary degree would make a reviewer “professional.” I also think that discounting good criticism because it wasn’t given by a pro is downright dangerous.

All we can do is what we all probably do already, which is to take note of who consistently writes reviews that don’t stink of a back-alley cash pay off and rely on their opinion.  Ultimately it’s not qualifications but reputation that will, and oftentimes do determine who has the right to say shit to us.

Crap, I’m missing General Hospital fucking around with you bitches.

I think that only good writers get to write reviews too. And by good writers, I mean, only those who have sold over 31 millions copies worldwide. Its not the Oscars.  I think we should go for mass market appeal as what dictates who is a good author.

As for MJD, her distinctive snarky voice is a one note wonder.  Meaning, all her books are the same.  I stopped buying her when she started writing 100 page books and started selling them for $17.95.

Yes, I read my reviews.  Yes, I prefer the ones that gush.  I dislike the ones I don’t think do justice to the book.  Yes, I’m a writer who not only studies other people’s work, but have some pretty high standards anymore about what constitutes is a good book or bad book.

I was a reviewer once, after I was published.  I did three reviews.  But in the last I danced around a book that I thought was predictable.  I decided I couldn’t do reviews and be honest.  So I’ll talk about books to my friends, and may say a few things about the Huge Stars, and will be anonymous in judging published contests, but you won’t ever see me doing stars at amazon or anywhere else.

As for being a writer.  Good reviews, fan mail and everything else is a DRUG.  If you get three emails today that say they like your book, you need four tomorrow that say your book was the best they’d ever read and they sleep with it under their pillow.  You CAN’T depend on this drug.

The only true validation for an author must be an inner validation—that you wrote the book of your heart the best you could with the resources you had at the time.  So I try my best (and fail) to practice this inner validation thing.

And, yeah, this will be cross blogged in comments.

Robin

So, after skimming the various comments on RTB, I can only wonder:  why the hell is so much time and effort being spent by all to state how little they care about reviews???

And MJD can grow a spine - misunderstanding my ass.

Something is very, very wrong with me.  I thought MJD was hilarious.  Was Karen Scott upset?  My god!  I must have the “Brad Pitt Missing Compassion Gene” disease.

So EvilAuntiePeril is collecting resumes? Okay. Here goes: B.A., dual degree, English literature and journalism; M.F.A., creative writing. One book published. Grants & scholarships & residencies (including one in which my writing quarters had a positively sybaritic High Victorian bathroom—well, damn it, even temporary possession of such a bathroom establishes my creds, if nothing else). Twelve years as an editor and professional writer. (Which means healthcare was included.)

I glance at the Amazon reviews out of curiosity, but usually if I’ve gone to the trouble of searching for the book, I already know if I am going to buy it or not. Amazon reviews don’t sway me, either way. I particularly treasure the most psychotic or paranoid ramblings, seeing them almost as a form of folk art. Sort of like graffiti, which did eventually get recognized as a serious art form, after all. I’m delighted when some reviews seem really well written and well thought out, and I always wonder who that person was & why he or she cared enough to commit their time & effort into composing a pretty decent review. I think sometimes it’s done for love ... of books, I mean ... which makes it sacred, in a way. Credentialed or uncredentialed.

What I don’t understand about Romance is why some people within it are always asking why it’s not taken seriously, and its good writers aren’t praised enough. But then, if someone does try to take Romance seriously—by opening up a critical discussion by writing reviews or discussing books as if they really meant something more than the local weekly advertising supplement in the newspaper—everyone screams “No fair!” like it’s a mean girl thing to do.

Shannon: DO TELL about the time you got PTSD for disagreeing with someone. Was it on this forum? Or somewhere else? *ears perked for good gossip*

I’m so crushed that you don’t remember my managing to cross both the Smart Bitches and la familia Goldberg with one post by giving my opinion on romance writers reviewing other romance writers.  Strangely enough my opinion was being changed by intelligent conversation on the matter until I was called a fucktard.  The “Bite my ass” response to being referred to as such is damn near Pavlovian. But the Smart Bitch’s role in that was limited to my not having expressed something clearly, causing it to piss you off, but then it was all cleared up.

The point...did I have a point...oh--that I studiously avoided the entire brouhaha for good reason. But I do believe that anybody who reads a book is qualified to review it.  Do I have to be a TV writer to tell you I think the show “Surface” sucks? No. Now, what if TV Guide says Surface sucks?  Or one of his colleagues says it sucks?  All three of are qualified to say it sucks.  But the writers/etc of that show get to dismiss them as they please.  Are they more apt to accept the declaration of suckiness from TV Guide or a fellow TV guy?  Probably.  But guess what?  It’s my fellow viewers and I who are going to change the channel and get the show cancelled.

And it’s up to the creators AND fellow viewers to differentiate between “Surfus suks because she aint hot” and “I was disappointed by Surface’s constant building up drama, only to have no payoff, and the characterization...” (I won’t go on)

And while I allow that there are a buttload of morons in the world, your average reader/viewer can tell the difference.

Something is very, very wrong with me.  I thought MJD was hilarious.  Was Karen Scott upset?

It’s been what...over 24 hours, and I still can’t tell if they had a blast or if they’re really pissed.

I know they both have a truly wicked way with words, though.

(I’ll shut up now)

In response to your query, Lilith, once the A.R.S.E is firmly established the committee may consider relaxing the entry requirements for those published authors who can provide sufficient evidence of their independent study to the required level.

A rigorous and thorough viva voce examination administered by no less than three fully-qualified experts would, however, be mandatory. Furthermore, all such irregular candidates would be initially admitted to the A.R.S.E for a trial period of two years only. Their output during this time would be subject to continuous detailed scrutiny by a panel of experts to confirm their fitness for the role.

The A.R.S.E. committee strongly believes that only adherance to the most stringent standards can hold back the shocking deterioration of review quality. This has been most recently demonstrated by the abhorrant tendancy of those with claims of mere extensive “experience” unsupported by even on-line degrees in the “Love Arts” from the University of Tantric Ecstasy and Rampant Unbridled Sensuality to evaluate the erotic content of romantica.

That’d be the first time anyone has ever contested whether or not I was an A.R.S.E.

Dear Auntie Peril,

I now officially have a hilarity hernia, you evil, evil woman. I suppose I might as well get my online U.T.E.R.U.S. degree and apply for my A.R.S.E. membership. In the two-year period, would prospective A.R.S.E. members be known as “Little A.R.S.E.s”?

The hillarity continues ...

MJD bans a reader from buying her books ... ever.

I was an ass about it, yeah, but I’m an ass in general, and own to that cheerfully

You do give delightful traffic, though.  I might scheme a way to really piss you off in April, when both of my books are scheduled to release in print. *g*

During the 2 year trial period, candidates could be considered similar to doctors in training and therefore should be referred to as Resident A.R.S.E.s r-a.r.s.e.

Or perhaps Faux A.R.S.E.?

Faux A.R.S.E.!! Where’s my application?! I have loads of experience plus my online degree in T.W.A.T.S. should qualify me as able to “to evaluate the erotic content of romantica.”

MJD the one note wonder here.  Someone on this string made a great point: how many blog pages and comments boxes have been used up by writers explaining they don’t pay attention to reviews? Gobs. Which in itself says something, whether we want it to or not. Assuming everyone reading the same posts can agree about what they’re saying, which is far from guaranteed.

Heck, in various strings, people have read posts and decided: I’m hilarious.  No, I’m a rabid foaming bitch who should be gagged, sedated, then shot, probably without a silencer. No, it’s all tongue in cheek. No, it’s mean.

Or: poor innocent Karen Scott, minding her own business when MJD went off like a mad dog (who should be gagged, sedated, then shot).  No, Karen was a jerk and MJD took her down a peg.  No, she didn’t.  Yes, she did.  Shut up.  YOU shut up.

Or: MJD offended everyone in the world, forever. No, she explained herself. No, she didn’t explain; she’s spineless. No, we just didn’t get it. Yes, we did: she’s an arse.

(Speaking of, my application to A.R.S.E. is now on file.)

And: MJD is a jackbooted thug who thinks only PhD candidates should review her books. No, she doesn’t even have a college degree; proof she’s the last person who would think that. Well, maybe, but she’s still a spineless shifty-eyed loser dumbass whore. Well, okay, I’ll give you that one.

My point, and I do have one (and let’s hope I make this one better than the first one, and whoops, there went my spine, I just slithered into a boneless pile right in front of my screen), is that it doesn’t matter how many posts there are on a topic, how many explanations, how much debate, how much name-calling...people are going to make up their own minds.  If they didn’t before they even waded in.  If you educate someone, awesome. If you change their mind, great. If you don’t, that’s okay too. Either way: I know a lot more about reviews, reviewers, and Amazon than I did on Monday.  And that’s for sure.

:::Checking:::

Yeah.  I still think this is hillarious.  I’m probably going straight to hell when I die.

So, now we know the two blog topics guaranteed to generate a robust discussion are reviews and MJD.  These two may be more popular than man titties.  Maybe not, but it sure looks like it.

Seems to me there can be good reader reviewers and good author reviewers.  Being a writer or not shouldn’t preclude someone from reviewing.  Now, writing “the dialog sparkles” for every book and giving every freaking one 5 Gold Stars - yeah, that’s not a reviewer.  That’s a PR person.  But, the real issue here is the one raised by Beth.  No matter how this debate comes out we need to make an exception so that Beth can rip on Gabaldon’s books.

And to the extent the former argument on this topic (I believe it came from a mess I started) resulted in Shannon being called a fucktard - I apologize to Shannon for my role in that.  Name calling isn’t good.  Neither were the nasty private emails I got (not from Shannon).  All bad.  Maybe we should stick to talking about MJD.  Less chance of PTSD.  I love her books…

MY PLOY TO GET MARYJANICE DAVIDSON TO CALL HERSELF A DUMBASS WHORE ON SMART BITCHES HAS WORKED, MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And now, the Four Horsemen. *hoofbeats*

Anyway, thank you, MaryJanice, for an excellent executive summary. It also illustrates the subjectivity of the reading experience. If these little bits of writing--with the authors on hand to provide clarification, mind you--can be interpreted in such a dizzying array of ways, then imagine the number of reactions and interpretations possible for a whole friggin’ BOOK.

I can only dream of aspiring to A.R.S.E.; the sad fact is, I’m far too lazy to acquire even THAT particular bit of certification. 

Either way: I know a lot more about reviews, reviewers, and Amazon than I did on Monday.  And that’s for sure.

Don’t we all?

Hate mail to the wench who started this whole thing can be directed to:

hey, didn’t you start it all, Angie? So you’re an ARSE too?

I would never, ever presume to be a more popular topic than man titties.  That’s. So. Wrong. :-)

I’m crushed that MJD didn’t take me up on my offer to trade my husband for ARCs for life. He’s quite good.

Save me a seat, Ferfe.

And no apologies, HelenKay. That was definitely my shoeprint in the pile. It was a good discussion (you know, except for the fucktard part)and your comments did actually change my opinion of the whole matter. I’m not really traumatized. (And I’ll have to eat chocolate after this, but I miss Ms.Called Me A Fucktard’s blog every day when I bloghop. I enjoy her view on things)(Well, except her view on me *ggg*)

“Here’s the terrifying part that authors hate, just hate to own up to”

Not true at all, at least in my case. It would be awful if writers needed some kind of degree.

Shit, if we’re trading husbands for ARCs, then I’d like to offer the Very Tall Husband to Laura Kinsale, Loretta Chase, Barbara Samuel, Jennifer Crusie or Lisa Kleypas. Yes, he eats a LOT, and he has a bad habit of forgetting stuff like birthdays, but:

a) HOT. Seriously, he’s one of the hottest boys I’ve ever met.

b) Is 6’8”, and thus is handy when you need something retrieved from great heights.

c) Computer-savvy. He’s broken and ressurected more computers than Elizabeth Taylor has husbands.

d) Enormously strong. When I got my elliptical machine last year, he single-handedly wrestled that beast into the living room, when two of the guys at work (burly ones, too) could barely lift it into the trunk of my car.

e) Smells nice.

f) Smart. He has a large vocabulary, and he ain’t afraid to use it, grrrrwoof!

g) Loves animals, though he likes cats a lot more than dogs.

h) Will introduce you to more weird new music than you can shake a stick at, from French electronica to Senor Coconut.

First one to bid, wins. I have the tranq gun at the ready.

Anders: Good point. My statement was just a wee bit too sweeping.

Hey, I went out and got my hair cut and spent like 5 hours in traffic, only to come back and find that y’all are STILL talking about this.

More than that, I must say I’m impressed. If you read this whole debate starting at RTB and then come on over and finish up here, you get this amazing and rarely-witnessed phenomenon: WOMEN in the ROMANCE community actually CRITICIZING each other and saying what they HONESTLY THINK about the other person, but not being Great Big Babies about it and taking their toys home after wailing “get out of my sandbox, you meanie!” Way to suck it up, buttercups!

Incidentally, my opinion is that MJD’s original comment wasn’t at all that non-writers shouldn’t review. Just that semi-literate Amazon reviewers shouldn’t discourage a writer because what the hell do THEY know, anyway? Which I really have to agree with. But frankly, I’ll agree with anything that allows me to piss off the Ladies of Lallybroch. I mean, I do have my priorities. And I really enjoyed every moment of my vilification. If that’s a word.

PS: Candy, you forgot that I’m even in even deeper moral doo-doo than that, because I am (gasp! shock! fetch me the hartshorn!) friends with actual authors.  Lawks a’mercy and quelle scandale.

I haven’t even made it far enough up the ladder to get Amazon reviews - shitty, or otherwise.  Well, okay, The Amazing, Reads a Thousand Books a Month and Thus Usually Gets Protagonists’ Names Wrong Harriet Klausner has reviewed my books, but I’m pretty sure she reviews pamphlets about Famous Jewish Sports Legends and Nora’s grocery list in her free time, so she doesn’t really count.

I can’t wait until I’m all grown up and I can get some illiterate Amazon book bashing going on too.  Ah, the things we aspire to.  I’m also looking forward to my first hot flash.

“Incidentally, my opinion is that MJD’s original comment wasn’t at all that non-writers shouldn’t review. Just that semi-literate Amazon reviewers shouldn’t discourage a writer because what the hell do THEY know, anyway?”

This is entirely too reasonable an interpretation; therefore, I refuse to accept it. Do you hear me, Beth? JE REFUSE.

“Candy, you forgot that I’m even in even deeper moral doo-doo than that, because I am (gasp! shock! fetch me the hartshorn!) friends with actual authors.”

Holy fuck! That’s right!

Hey, put in a good word for the Very Tall Husband with Laura, will ya?

“Shit, if we’re trading husbands for ARCs, then I’d like to offer the Very Tall Husband”

Candy, I have no ARCs, but am wondering if you’ll take a few bottles of wine and a gently used Fendi bag in exchange for the Very Tall Husband?  If he will regularly take out the trash and scrape the snow off my car, I’ll throw in 6 months worth of Jamaican Blue Mountain pure (a helluva deal at $35-$50/pound).

‘If these little bits of writing--with the authors on hand to provide clarification, mind you--can be interpreted in such a dizzying array of ways, then imagine the number of reactions and interpretations possible for a whole friggin’ BOOK.’

EXACTLY. I got a review that totally trashed one of our books...Too much backstory, plot too complicated, worldbuilding terms not properly explained, too long. The reviewer ended with my favorite empty statement, “needed more editing’.

Not a week later, I got a review from another site--the polar opposite. Reviewer raved about how great the backstory was, the plot was complicated but well thought out, loved the way the worldbuilding terms were explained without it being overdone, etc.

Two reviewers, two totally different opinions. Who was right? Who the hell knows? Almost as much fun as the reader who yelled at me because one of our books made her ‘think too much’.

Goes back to the old salt: Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and some are more offensive than others. Getting upset about them does no good--they’re not going to go away. Take what you can from them and move on.

And MJD...the bit about the convo with your editor cracked me completely up. Self-deprecating humor has always been my favorite, and I’ve actually HAD conversations like that.

Sorry, Shaunee--I’m allergic to alcohol AND hypersensitive to caffeine. And I am fond of the big old lug, so if I whore him out, I gotta make sure it’s totally worth it--to me, anyway.

Heck, in various strings, people have read posts and decided: I’m hilarious.  No, I’m a rabid foaming bitch who should be gagged, sedated, then shot, probably without a silencer. No, it’s all tongue in cheek. No, it’s mean.

See, I think you like having it both ways—or either way, or no way, or anyway in between.  There’s a little bit of that Mark Twain wisdom that the best practical joke is the one recently played on you, I guess.  And having spent an entire semester with a Con Law professor who had clerked for two Supreme Court justices telling us how unqualified he was for the task of teaching us has made me extra sensitive to disingenuous self-flagellation.  Not that I know what’s going on with you or not, but FWIW, I think there’s a sharp, sharp edge to your commentary that some of us have reacted to (and that at some point eclipses the humor).  It won’t stop me from buying your books (the hardcover prices have slowed me down there all by themselves), but it surprised me. 

As for being a writer.  Good reviews, fan mail and everything else is a DRUG.  If you get three emails today that say they like your book, you need four tomorrow that say your book was the best they’d ever read and they sleep with it under their pillow.  You CAN’T depend on this drug.

I don’t think this point can be understated, and I think it’s the single most powerful reason there is so much resistance to critique in Romance.  Authors write for fans, a word that implies both extremity and approbation, and as long as readers reside in the “fan” category, they are the target audience.  But have those same “fans” critique a book, and all of a sudden we’re not qualified to judge.  I don’t blame authors entirely for this conundrum, because I think it’s promoted by the industry as a whole, but it’s an attitude that goes as far as clinch covers and man titty IMO to de-legitimating Romance in the eyes of readers outside the genre.  And while it’s something that may have its roots in sexism, women are now policing it all by ourselves.

yah about the MJD Voice (or any romance writer)—you can read it if you like it, and you can ignore it if you hate it.

The beauty of this all is that we’re not actually talking about a judge or even just a law professor trying to impress you by being unimpressive. There will be no test at the end of this section and her declarations won’t go down in the law books.

If I were picking someone who reminded me of MJD I’d say it’s more Ali . . dancing around like a butterfly occasionally stinging like a bee.

I love reader reviews--readers are who I write for. But I do take exception to some things.

1. Snarky reviews that consist of wording like one I got on Amazon: “This book was terrible, I never finished the first chapter.”

If a book is badly written, that’s one thing. If it’s just not to your taste, that’s different. One of my biggest pet peeves is readers who trash a book NOT because it’s a bad book but because (a) they never read that kind of book but read this one anyway and HATED IT and/or (b) went into the book with a preconceived notion what it was about, was disappointed that’s not what it was and proceeded to trash it for not being what no one ever said it was.

That said, I also object to review venues, be they online or off, that don’t provide professional quality reviews. If you’re going to have reader reviews, then at least have the honesty to say that’s what they are. There is a difference, and having been a reviewer before I was a published writer I think it’s unfair to readers not to make clear which is being offered.

When I read MJD’s comments in threads on other blogs, they sounded like a slightly wittier version of the reviewer hateration we’ve heard from the likes of PBW, but with a substantial amount of tooting her own horn thrown in. What finally tore it for me was the catty comment about Karen Scott misunderstanding MJD due to a language barrier. Huh?!

A few people appear be giving MJD the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was all in fun. They’re entitled to their opinions, of course. Every follow-up comment from her has been, in my view, a desperate attempt to make herself look clever and still take swipes at her critics.

From one way of looking at it, the Authors Behaving Badly phenomenon is a good thing. Instead of buying a book from an author who acts like — what was that word? ah, yes — an “asshat” on the Internet, I can spend that money elsewhere, preferably on an author who doesn’t constantly remind us of how many books she’s sold. PBW’s comments in this regard are particularly insufferable.

No matter how this debate comes out we need to make an exception so that Beth can rip on Gabaldon’s books.

Beth has my full championship, blessing, permission, agreement, patronage, approval, and support to do so.

I’m late to the party again, but lemme say this: I know some pretty dense PhDs. Persistence is more important than talent or brains when it comes to getting one.

And: the internet would be a damn boring place if only PhDs got to voice an opinion.

Finally: as an author, I hope for a fair-minded review. Negative reviews only upset me if they are factually incorrect or attack me personally. A review that says *didn’t work for me and here’s why...*—that’s actually a useful thing, if not a particularly painless one. 

The only Amazon review I have ever complained about was one that gave away a major plot twist, and I only asked for it to be editing to fix that. And Amazon did do that much.

we’re not actually talking about a judge or even just a law professor trying to impress you by being unimpressive.

No, because who really cares about that isolated of an audience?  The coverage here is so much bigger.  Stakes are much much lower, but the coverage is exponentially broader. 

But even on that small clasroom scale, what I found interesting was that this law professor came across to many in the class as NEITHER impressive or modestly unimpressive.  Personally, I was grateful he prepared me so well for the coverage of the confirmation hearings, but if student evals are like Amazon reviews, I think the guy is in for a surprise.  Of course, neither those nor his comments over the course of the semester go public, either.

Persistence is more important than talent or brains when it comes to getting one.

Oh, this is so TRUE!  I used to have a lot of disrespect for my own degree because of this, until I started law school.  Now, at least three times a week, I am profoundly grateful to that program for training me to be intellectually flexible and assimil