Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

Here’s a question that’s been running through my mind recently: how many small presses employ/use copy editors?  I’ve been reading a ton of Ellora’s Cave, and there are some copy editing errors that make me want to weep in frustration (your/you’re, etc.) What about large presses, as I’ve found copy editing errors in first printings that make me crazy.  I want to read the good dirty stuff, but as an English major, there’s nothing like a misused contraction to bump me out of the mood.

Thanks for asking those burning questions, Sarah, and thanks for answering, M.A.E.  Loved that last bit.

Sarah - are you thinking of becoming a report reader yourself? Because I’ll bet you’d be AWESOME at it!!

Ipomoea - there are editors and line editors in place at EC and still the typos get through. Found some in my own books, I’m ashamed to admit. I think they multiply in transit from my computer to theirs…

Here’s a question that’s been running through my mind recently: how many small presses employ/use copy editors?

Samhain has a “staff” of 12 copy editors (who are seperate from the content editors). I can’t answer for other small presses, though I know from anecdotal evidence from authors that not all do employ them. For some, the “editor” is the content and copy editor. I think it’s an issue of money. And it’s not easy to find a good copy editor. In the past year, I’ve had 500 applicants (I keep a spreadsheet), though not all have gone through the testing process, I’d say there were at least 300 who did. Of those, I think I’ve hired five (off the top of my head without looking at the spreadsheet). And there were a lot of English majors in those applicants ;) It’s just not an easy job and it takes a really amazing person to do it.

If you’re interested in “testing” just for fun, email me and I’ll send you the manuscript.

“Lord Dinnae Ken” will have me laughing for days.

um, my question is, HOW DO I GET TO BE ONE???????
:-D

That’s quite an analogy you’ve got going there, SB Sarah. Also, the comment notifier word is eviling at me. Why doesn’t it believe that I am human?

I am so confused by the last sentence of this post.

Ipomoea,

I’ve placed books with five or six different epubs, including Samhain and EC, and it’s obvious there’s a qualitative difference among editors--even those within a given company.  I’ve dealt with stellar to near-stupid.  Maybe it’s a matter of “you get what you pay for”.  Beats me.  I don’t know how to account for the uneven output.

Sarah...ah,

Helluva hallucinatory sentence, that last one.  Or dream sequence.  Or Joycean stream-of-spewciousness.  In any case, I want some of what you injested just before you wrote it.  (Pay ya, too.)

I have - a lot - of publishers. And the quality varies, it really does. Not just house to house but editor to editor. I’ve been around a few years now, known a few editors and I can’t fathom it.
My copy is fairly clean (or so I’m told) and I try hard to keep it that way because then the editor can really concentrate on the iffy bits and help me make a better book, not just a better spelled book.
Copy editors are wonderful, really, they notice stuff that has been through 3 edits (eh, Angie?) and neither the author or her editor has noticed, and when you do, it’s hammer head against the nearest wall time.
I remember one book of mine which had a misplaced apostophe on the first page. This was a book that had been through 3 hard edits and a copy editor. It got stellar reviews and yet all I could remember was that bloody apostrophe! I saw it as soon as I opened the file when it was sent to me.

I know some readers aren’t bothered by historical inaccuracies, but they drive me crazy!  I’m not talking little things, like whether a lady in 1818 would have been wearing a long corset or a short corset, but the Regency romance that included a visit to the Eiffel Tower, or the historicals that claim all you needed to get divorced in the 19th Century was to say you wanted a divorce.

Are readers required to offer credentials if they’re reviewing historical romance? 

And ranting aside, I enjoyed reading this article.  Thank you for getting the interview, SB Sarah.  It was informative.

If the SBs ever look for a new or supplemental title for Good Shit vs. Shit to Avoid, my vote goes to “Heinous and Mediocre” followed closely by “So Bad It Is An Offense to Mankind.” Or either of them could be new ratings for books that don’t qualify for an F. I really enjoyed your M.A.E. She (oops, shouldn’t assume) is quite wonderfully snarky.

I wanna read the snark from the report reader reject pile.  Any way MAE would be willing to share some of those?

I don’t know about other author’s editors, but the ones at EC are seriously overloaded.  I love mine and I think she likes me, but that’s because I’m ruthless with my manuscripts so they’re fairly clean before my editor sees it.  That way, instead of focusing on dangling participles, she can make comments like “I’m not sure how they got into that position.” (Not that she’s ever made that particular comment.)

Oh, moral of the story: be kind to your editors and be ruthless with your manuscript.  In the end, it’s your name on the cover.

How does one go about applying to be a Report Reader?

The last sentence of that interview is made of awesome.

I’ve been finding it interesting that it seems as though I see more errors now than I used to; my assumption was that spell and grammar check would catch a lot of things and make it easier.  Maybe too easy?

Who is Cassie Edwards and why does everybody seem to hate her?

Sarah, that last paragraph was fantastic!!!!

Jessica—read some of the ‘F Grade’ book reviews here; Edwards’ novels are featured in several. Plenty of snark-tastic details are provided there.

“I’ve been finding it interesting that it seems as though I see more errors now than I used to; my assumption was that spell and grammar check would catch a lot of things and make it easier.  Maybe too easy?”

Spell checkers won’t find words that are spelled correctly but used incorrectly - like “peek” and “peak” or even just things like “thought” and “though”. The only way for me to pick up things like that on my own work is to read out loud because then my eyes don’t just gloss over what I *think* I wrote.

And yes, at the end of the day, it’s my name on the book, not my editor’s.

Jessica--you can also read some “F” reviews of Edwards’ books at All About Romance, but they won’t make you spew Coke out of your nose like the reviews here.

No one here hates Ms. Edwards, we’re just puzzled by the whole publishing phenomenon that keeps her books in print.

fiveandfour: one of the problems with the spool chucker is that it’s led many people to believe that editing consists of checking the spelling and grammar, and thus all you need to do now that we have word processors is run the manuscript through the electronic checkers. The error of this view is shown by the existence of nicknames like “spool chucker"…

Thanks, SB Sarah! This interview was great and reminded me of my intern days.  When I was a publishing intern we were encouraged to complete readers reports for mss from the slush.

Many (dare I say, most?) small and indie publishers use copyeditors; most of us freelance out copyedit work. My house has a “stable” of copyeditors who can work with our type of content. We also have an in-house copyeditor; she does proof merges, among other things.

Copyediting is expensive. We just received an invoice on a book for copyediting that came to more than $9,000. This is an exceptionally expensive project on a specialized topic. On an average book we pay between $1500-$3000 for copyediting; then we pay another freelancer for the proofreading of galley pages. We proof second and third pages in-house.

I once worked at a house with a managing editor who had a five mistake rule--five or fewer mistakes was her threshold for an acceptable book. She always assigned an intern to proofread a book after it arrived from the printer to both give interns some proofreading experience and to verify the five mistakes threshold.

one of the problems with the spool chucker is that it’s led many people to believe that editing consists of checking the spelling and grammar

I think this is probably the heart of the problem: people perhaps don’t mean to rely on word processing programs to catch errors as much as they do, but because that safety net is there they don’t watch their step quite like they would without it. 

Speaking from experience with using a typewriter one minute and a PC the next, I can say I’m far more conscious of each and every letter and word, not to mention what I intend to say and how I intend to say it, when typing on a typewriter where it’s a painful process to correct errors or misstatements.

Of course, I think it’s also possible that past writers made just as many errors as are made today and it was the process of re-typing that helped to catch them.  There’s nothing like a manual process that’s painful to start over/repeat for getting people to pay attention to what they’re doing.

Add me to the list of people who’d like to apply to be a reader. Or a copy editor, if anyone will test me without a college edumacation.

I’d love to be a report reader.  Being paid to read books? What could be better?!

Please, me too. I would be very pleased to get into proofreading/copy editing/slushpile combing.

Regards, Ruth

I’m thowing in my vote to be a report reader! How does one go about doing such a thing?

Okay, SB Sarah, what’s with the JISMJ blog?