Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

I too have heard that Luna is either cutting back (although how they can cut back from their already meager release schedule) or moving toward closure.  That makes three failed lines for Harlequin. 

I really enjoyed the Luna line and will be sorry to see it go.  I ventured into the Fantasy aisle to find these books (moving outside my comfort zone!).  But I do think that it illuminates an important issue.  Women tend not to read fantasy and sci fi in big numbers.  In order to move the romance readership into those realms, I think you would have to make romance a greater focus of the books. 

I do wonder what will happen to Maria Snyder’s critically acclaimed “Study” series.  I’m sure she would find a new home but maybe not Laura Ann Gilman or Laura Resnick.  Laura Resnick’s Disappearing Nightly was a gem of a book. 

Anyway, it makes me sad that this line could close because I did enjoy many of the stories.  I probably own or have read all but 5 or 6 books from the entire line.

I’d be really sad to see the Luna line go. I’m more of an eclectic reader, so sci/fi and fantasy is more of a usual read for me. Luna books are almost always an auto-buy for me, as I find the stories and characters to be really interesting and totally readable. Much better than the dreck Harlequin usually throws at us readers. :)

What?! Oh Gail hunny, I’m so sorry! That just sucks! I am very sure you will get to publish it elsewhere! That series is too good to go homeless for long!

The Luna authors have it from the-powers-that-be that Luna is still very much seeking submissions, but they are focusing on urban fantasy now.  (Which doesn’t mean they’re ruling out historical fantasy; it just has to be amazing.)

That’s all I can report!

On her website, Laura Resnick (of Disappearing Nightly fame says that her association with Luna has also ended ("amicably"), But C.E. Murphy’s Walker Papers “aren’t going anywhere” (yay!!!!), so maybe they are just refocusing the line? I would think if *everything* were selling so poorly, they wouldn’t bother re-issuing stuff in mass market, but I guess that could be a last-ditch effort to find new readers. DN is Urban Fantasy, though.

Certainly, they aren’t going to gain any favor by not-publishing series that their readership was in the middle of, though. I’m already annoyed about the strongbox chronicles and Debra Webb’s “silent” series, so if Luna goes too, Harlequin will definitely be receiving a nasty letter from me. Do they have something against attracting young, hip readers who want strong heroines and non wishy-washy chick lit? Honestly. Males 18-34 are supposed to be the holy grail of TV advertising, so why should the girls of the buffy generation (who mostly fall into that age range now) be any different? Seriously.

I hope it’s not true, but if it is, I very much hope Gail Dayton is able to find another publisher for the third book in the Rose trilogy, because I’m on the edge of my seat for that one.

I wonder if Harlequin’s lack of success with these offshoot lines comes from being unable to separate the new lines from the Harlequin image. I’m a very new romance reader, and part of the reason I waited so long to get into the genre was all of the negative connotation Harlequin holds for me from adolescent attempts at reading those books. If Harlequin can scare me off the entire romance genre, it’s no wonder their reputation was enough to keep even seasoned romance readers away from Bombshell and Luna.

Or conversely, maybe it’s a matter of Harlequin’s usual readers being unwilling to read books that depart from Harlequin’s usual settings, characters, and stories? Without faithful Harlequin readers *or* being able to convert fantasy or thriller readers into romance readers, the lines couldn’t survive.

As a reader I never even noticed WHO published a book (note I have never read Harlequin category romances where the publisher was pretty obvious). I didn’t care, and it never occurred to me that the publisher really made all the much difference. I never thought, This is an Avon romance, so I’ll probably like it. or This sci0fi book is from Tor so I’m totally gonna buy it!

Am I the only one?

Now that I’m writing I hear this stuff all the time. I love the books from Luna! I buy them all. or Such-and-such site has it in for Avon, and all their books get bad reviews there.

It just strikes me as strange to judge a book by it’s publisher, but maybe I was missing out on a key way to find new books I would have loved.

question:  How can a publisher decide not to press a contracted book?  If the author refused to hand over the book for publication, wouldn’t that be breach? In this case, does the publisher still have to pay a certain contracted amount and who has the rights to the book?

Tonda/Kalen, I don’t know how it is for others, but for me it’s like this: I read category first because they were cheaper and I live on a shoestring budget where any book is a luxury.

Most of them promptly disappointed me--poor writing, cookie-cutter plot, you name it--but I found some that I loved. However, I am a fast reader--400+ pages an evening is not uncommon--so a category romance didn’t feed the addiction for even a full day. Add to that the rather stringent language and other restrictions on most category lines… Frankly, these days most if not all of the category I read is backlist from authors whose single titles I love.

I get more bang for my money, so to speak, from a single title than I do from category.

It just strikes me as strange to judge a book by it’s publisher, but maybe I was missing out on a key way to find new books I would have loved.

I think readers can start to associate certain publishers with certain artistic elements, like people begin to associate certain TV writers or film directors with a certain kind of series/movie (when I say “Aaron Sorkin’s got a new show on NBC called Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip,” for many people that means the new show will probably feature smart people, fast dialogue, and a behind-the-scenes setting, because Sorkin’s earlier shows, Sports Night and The West Wing, featured those elements).

So, if I’m a long-term SF/Fantasy reader, and have only negative experiences of reading Harlequin books, when I hear that Harlequin is starting a SF/Fantasy line called Luna, I might be skeptical of it, given my (admittedly limited) knowledge of Harlequin product. ("Oh, great: a whole story about a pregnant witch, only she doesn’t know which warlock is the father! Because she has amnesia!") This phenomenon perhaps is limited to readers who are steeped in a particular genre and develop a familiarity with quite a few publishing houses/lines. It may keep you from discovering great writers, but it also can protect you from a horrible aesthetic espoused by a particular publisher.

Publishers most definitely have “flavors” that readers pick up on (sometimes knowingly, sometimes not), and while a particular reader may not think about the publisher, they will almost certainly think about the cover design.

I can spot my company’s books at 50 paces, and the cover design isn’t a “brand” looking design like many of the Harlequin imprints.

The Luna line, if I’m not mistaken, was created by and for Fantasy readers who also liked romance (The first authors they signed were SF/F authors, and many of their current authors--Catherine Asaro, Sarah Zettel, Laura Anne Gilman, and likely others--all came originally from SF/F).

I suspect it was/is a weird situation where the audience of the imprint and the readership the company knows how to reach are not the same group. Sure, there’s overlap, but is it enough to sustain an imprint?

The Urban Fantasy market is booming right now. That cannot obtain forever--in a decade, or sooner, that market will cool off. The publishing world is ever in flux, with different types of books coming into and out of vogue.

I’m saddened that Luna appears to be having trouble selling romantic fantasy. However, the SF/F lines are not having the same problem. However (again), “romantic” fantasy is not a huge seller even in the fantasy genre. Those readers want the fantasy epic first, and the romance as a subplot. That is what Luna was initially bringing to the market, but I can’t help but think they just didn’t know how to reach the fantasy readers.

Now publishing houses seem to have followers, though sadly HQ’s efforts to cultivate that idea have fallen short, and certainly television writers have developed their own followings as well - Joss Whedon, Aaron Sorkin, and Shonda Rimes, to name a few.

I think perhaps part of the reason why HQ is/was unable to launch successful offshoot lines might have been related to this TV-writer phenomenon you wrote about Sarah. (Side note: Where/when will the article be published? I’d love to read it.)

We’re surrounded by all sorts of media, and ways of absorbing that media. You can watch TV shows on your computer or iPod, you can read books on your Palm Pilot, you can watch movies on a portable DVD player. I think this has led to a bleed-through in terms of consumers’ expectations of quality. In other words, when I’m able to read a book and also watch a TV show on my PDA, I’m more likely to apply the same standards of quality to each product.

Thus, consumers are looking to the most *consistent* element of the product as their judging standard. In television, the creator/showrunner/head writer is a consistent element; with a book genre or subgenre, it may be an entire publishing house. In an environment like ours, with such a prolific or even overwhelming amount of media from which to choose, consumers will use the simplest criterion (or criteria) to choose what they will consume.

I read The Compass Rose based solely on the rave review it got here at Smart Bitches; I didn’t even know Luna was a Harlequin subsidiary until I read the colophon on the back of the title page. (Yes, I read the colophon. Shut up, I’m studying to be a librarian.) The review was enough to get me over my HQ-hate, but in the absence of that review, I never would have picked up the book. And I would have been poorer for it, too, because I loved the story and the writing.

Hmmm. You know, I thought I had a point here, but I guess I don’t. Just maybe that launching a successful off-shoot line is incredibly challenging and depends in large part what associations readers have with the parent house. Publishers may have to do huge amounts of consumer testing before they begin marketing a new line, so they can take that element into account.

I mean, I avoided Luna precisely because I don’t like Harlequin, so houses need to take into consideration how their intended audience for the new line views the parent house.

Hope this comes across as news and not a shameless plug, but take what you will from it:

As far as I know, Luna is starting two new series within the next year: 

1) EYES OF CROW, by yours truly, is coming out this Halloween.  It’s a non-urban fantasy (a rural fantasy?) with a central romance and a happy ending.  It’s the first part of a trilogy, but can stand alone in the same way that the first STAR WARS movie stood alone (the real first SW movie from 1977, not that POS with Jar Jar Binks and--oh, I can’t even talk about it and maintain a normal blood pressure). 

Anyway, EOC is about a world where everyone has magic bestowed by their totem animals--sort of X-Men meets Clan of the Cave Bear.

2) C.E. Murphy will start an urban fantasy series (in addition to the Walker Papers) beginning the end of next year called the Old Races Trilogy.  It has more romance than the Walker Papers and features a hero who’s a gargoyle.  The first one is called HEART OF STONE.

From what other Luna authors have told me, the Luna books have sold unusually well when compared to other fantasy books.  But when compared to romances, not so much.  The market for the latter is simply much huger than for the former, and maybe Harlequin was expecting romance #s and not sf/f #s. 

Their goal a few years ago was to be a major force in all sorts of fiction for women, not just romance.  Thus their new imprints like Red Dress Ink (chick lit), MIRA (women’s fiction), LUNA (fantasy), NEXT (fiction for, uh, older women).  It’ll be interesting to see how this latest “course correction” plays out.

I’ve been hearing a lot about the category “urban fantasy,” and I was wondering if someone could define the term.  How does it differ from “regular” fantasy, if such a thing exists?

See, I avoided LUNA cause I don’t like paranormal romance (though I like paranormal sci-fi, where the world building tends to be better, IMO). It had nothing to do with it being associated with Harlequin. To avoid it for that reason would never have occurred to me. If I’d known the writers being published there were being drawn from the sci-fi side I might have tired those books . . . maybe I still will now that I KNOW.

As far as I know, “urban fantasy” and “contemporary fantasy” are the same thing.  Basically, the world as we know it, but with a fantasy element added, like vampires or werewolves.  I think “contemporary fantasy” is a more precise label, since not all of these books have an urban setting.  Charlaine Harris’s DEAD books are set in a small town, for instance.

My understanding of it is urban fantasy is more our real world setting, as opposed to “high” fantasy, where you have a faux medieval Europe or Asian setting.  It’s like the difference between contemporary and historical romance.

One of the best examples of urban fantasy and one that is considered a hallmarko of the genre is Emma Bull’s War for the Oaks. It is set in Modern day Minneapolis/St. Paul and contains all the trappings of the cities only it is inhabited by magical beings. In War for the Oaks, though, the magical beings are largely unknown to the human population.

More recent examples include Laurell K Hamilton’s Anita Blake and Merry Gentry series, Robin McKinley (?) the author of Sunshine, JR Ward’s vampire series.

Tonda, the explicit emphasis thus far at Luna has been on “romantic fantasy,” i.e., the fantasy storyline dominates and the world-building is key, whereas in “paranormal romance,” the romance is the core story. 

A Luna book would be at most a 50/50 romance/fantasy mix.  What they’re all supposed to have in common is a strong heroine coming to terms with her powers and usually saving the world from the Big Bad (it is fantasy, after all).

Robin--
regarding monies and rights--I am one of the Bombshell authors and how it worked (for us) was that we got paid and got the rights back for any books not published due to the line being pulled.

I have no idea if it’s the same for Luna but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t.

I am *very* sorry to hear that Luna is cutting back. I’ve have *loved* the vast majority of Luna books I’ve picked up. My normal reading material is fantasy, and it was wonderful to find a whole line of books with strong female characters. (I don’t have anything against male protaganists, and other publishers put out books with female leads, but the Luna books *all* have strong female leads. It’s been wonderful.)

It boggles my mind that they’re cutting back the line. I’ve loaned Luna books to my Grandmother, who absolutely loved Sarah Zettel’s books (and I had to all but twist her arm to get her to read them because she doesn’t like Fantasy). And to my husband who really liked the Luna books I’ve recommended to him (Gail Dayton and Michelle Sagara jump immediately to mind).

If Luna is foolish enough to drop these series, I hope that someone else will quickly pick them, or I am going to be *very* unhappy.

And to the person who wondered about paying attention to the publisher--I have noticed that there are some publishers who are more likely to put out books I really like than others. But with the Luna line, I found that almost (almost) everything they put out that I read I really loved.

In other words, if my purchase was a toss up between two unknown authors--one a Luna book and the other a book from another publisher--the Luna book would win every time.

A friend on LiveJournal told me the following (I didn’t check the info so it could be just rumour):

Caitlin Brennan was supposed to have a sequel trilogy to her first three books, but it is cancelled. She’s going to see if she can get another publisher for it though.

Sarah Zettel’s final Camelot book is cancelled by Luna, but it’s still being released by her British publisher and she’s going to see if the North American division will release it too.

Christie Golden’s series is on hold for now pending sales of the first two books.

Jane--

These days, “urban fantasy” at a publishing house is code for “modern-day setting with vampires or werewolves or other supernatural creatures--but not elves--in it.” Also: must be hot ‘n’ sexy. The sex factor has made it gravitate easily into Romance.

While I LOVE War for the Oaks, only folks in the SF/F community would call it “urban fantasy.”

(I don’t know what the thing is against elves; probably because they are too Tolkein, too identified with epic created-world fantasy. Even if they ride motorcycles and play in rock bands in contemporary America.)

(Also, I think the Marketing Dorks don’t “get” elves. I don’t know if they “get” vampires, either, but at least they can see the sales numbers and understand those.)

Another interesting question would be, are they going to continue to print the installments in the series that they have already printed.  Peter David had printed his Sir Apropos of Nothing books with a publisher that later decided it was no longer going to print anything but franchise fiction.  No more Apropos books from them, and until they stop printing the ones that are already out, it’s unlikely somebody else is going to be interested in book four of a series that has a different publisher for books one through three.

(Of course, my last update on the Peter David situation was at Dragon*Con 2005, so it may have changed by now, but the implication towards the Luna series in need of new homes is the same.)

E—My experience is that most publishers don’t define it *that* narrowly, though that may be what they’re most interested in looking for right now.  Were you talking about how romance publishers view it?  Over in SF/F, if it’s set in the more-or-less modern world and includes a fantastical element, then it’s urban fantasy; Charles de Lint is a good example of an author near-permanently camped out in that sub-genre, without vampires or werewolves.

And, to dredge up a comment from earlier:

Women tend not to read fantasy and sci fi in big numbers.

This isn’t as true as you might think.  SF, yes, to some extent, especially as you move toward hard SF (and you can cite a variety of possible reasons for that).  Fantasy, not so much, perhaps even edging over into not at all.  I don’t have hard numbers to back my counter-assertion up, but I’ve gotten no sense from my friends, conventions I’ve attended, fellow writers, my agent, or my editor that this is significantly true for fantasy.  I think it’s becoming one of those things that people are used to saying, but it may not reflect the current reality very well.

Kerri Arthur is another urban fantasy writer.
http://www.keriarthur.com/
Bad news about Luna. I like their books. I’ve just finished The Compass Rose and am about to go onto the next one. I’d be surprised if Gail Dayton didn’t get another publisher. There’s a ready and waiting market for her next book.

Adding to the ! about the final compass rose book not being published.  Eh?

That said, I am on such a tight budget I have to wait til the local library purchases stuff before I can read it, but I’ve had a hold on Dayton’s second compass rose book since it came out.

I figure that readers like me who go in and pester the libraries for their favourite authors are also contributing to booksales of said favourite authors, even if indirectly.

And if I completely fall in love with a book I eventually use a birthday or Christmas book token to get it.

Shame they’re moving to Urban fantasy with Luna, since it’s not my favourite subgenre.  That said, I love C E Murphy’s Urban Shaman (haven’t read the sequel yet) and have loved everything by Charles de Lint as well, so while it’s not the genre I immediately home in on, it’s still something I’d buy if the cover/blurb/author appealed.

Thanks for clarifying the definition of “urban fantasy.” I guess my mind had wandered over to something involving jive-talking wizards...which...hang on, maybe that should be my next book...The Lord of the Blings...yeah…

Does anyone know if Michelle Sagara’s ‘Cast’ series has been cut? I know it was meant to be a trilogy and have checked her website, but it hasn’t been updated since Oct ‘05.
Jo

Jo--the second “Cast” book is out, in trade paperback format.  I can’t recall the name, offhand, but I’ve seen it in the bookstores.

And yes, Michelle needs to update her website.[g]

“Also: Lord of the Blings and jive-talking wizards? If JR Ward hasn’t covered that already, she should. *comedy trombone*”

Wouldn’t it be “Lord of the Blihngs,” featuring Frohdo?

I started to think of some Black Dagger Brotherhood rap, (what rhymes with “vampire?") then abandoned it as a futile gesture that would only embarrass me with my whiteness.

I absolutely don’t think Luna’s folding.  It appears that they’re focusing and honing what’s working best for the line.  My third for them, Divine by Mistake, was released this month.  The sequel and forth Luna book will be out in December, with another coming out Sept. 07.  Whether there will be a 6th or 7th will depend on how these sell (and that would be a new contract with them).  They did move me from trade paperback to mass market – a move I’m VERY pleased about.  My core fans are in romance, and I know they’re more willing to attempt something they perceive as new if it’s available for $6.99 versus trade paperback prices.  (Although I always think I’m writing fantasy with sex, no matter what publisher stamps the spine.)

Basically, if you have enjoyed the Luna books, now’s the time to support your favorites.  I know the publisher is paying close attention to your buying or non-buying choices.

And, by-the-by, I’ve read Jeri Smith-Ready’s first Crow book, and IT KICKS ASS.  Y’all would really like it.

“Christie Golden’s series is on hold for now pending sales of the first two books.”

Oh no oh no oh no. I just read On Fire’s Wings and LOVED it. (granted, I also loved Golden’s sci-fi tie-in novels) I hope the rest of that series gets published.

On the other hand, is there any news on Snyder’s “Magic Study”? I have read nothing but good reviews for “Poison Study” but ended up hating it with a passion. If Luna has to choose between Golden’s and Snyder’s, I really hope they pick Golden’s.

On a tanget, Oh SBs, will you please review “Poison Study” by Maria Snyder? I’ve read so many glowing reviews of it that I’m starting to wonder if I’m crazy.

As for the comment about picking books by their publishers, I have never noticed publishers explicitly when I buy books, however, the similar cover art style some publishers use on their titles will catch my eye more than others. Is that considered publisher bias? Ironically, though I’ve never followed a publisher religiously, I almost did swear off a publisher after reading one bad book from them.

I absolutely LOVE the LUNA books.  P.C. Cast is one of my favorite authors and I know that she is completing her Partholon series. How can life be dismal at LUNA with P.C. still on board?

Oh no oh no oh no. I just read On Fire’s Wings and LOVED it. (granted, I also loved Golden’s sci-fi tie-in novels) I hope the rest of that series gets published.

Me, too.  I loved all the risks she took with it--it’s one of the few books where I said, “Wow, I didn’t see THAT coming.” You probably know what part I’m referring to.

The second one, IN STONE’S CLASP, is also excellent.  I think it’s a good sign that they haven’t made a final decision on the series yet.  If the MMP of OFW sells well, they’ll bring out the third (please please please), so everyone should go buy it.  I’m hoping for all five, personally.

“Also: Lord of the Blings and jive-talking wizards? If JR Ward hasn’t covered that already, she should. *comedy trombone*”

Wouldn’t it be “Lord of the Blihngs,” featuring Frohdo?

Zoe, I swear I almost posted the same line (except it was Lhord and no Frohdo), then my connection pooped out.  High Five!

Love the JRW books, despite the snicker-inducing names.

Aww...I loved the Gail Dayton books.  And the Christie Golden ones.  And the C.E. Murphy ones....almost all the stories, in fact.  I’ve got a shelf that’s just about completely full of Lunas. 

I have to say also that the trade paperback price is also a bit off-putting. I’m used to reading my SF/F in mass market.

The comparison with TV is more accurately portrayed as a publisher being like a network, rather than like a showrunner. Buing books from a publisher is like watching “must see TV” or saying that you don’t like the kind of shows the WB puts out (a lot of people avoided veronica mars because they thought it would be as cheesy as most of the teen dramas on the WB). The show runner is the author, or even the editor. For instance, I have noticed that I’ve liked the Harlequin Blazes put out by Brenda Chin’s authors the best.

The situation with Luna is not like that with Bombshell. Bombshell was a category line and Luna is a single title line. I doubt that your average B&N browser would have the slightest clue that Luna was put out by Harlequin. You don’t have the shelving issues you did with Bombshell. B-shells were shelved with category romance and weren’t cat rom. Lunas have been shelved with sci fi and fantasy, or even on the new fiction shelves at the big chain stores. As with RDI, Harlequin has kept their association with Luna proclaimed vry subtly.

In addition, this model of cutting back and canceling books in contracts is EXACTLY what has been happening with RDI. Last year, RDI cut back on production and dumped a bunch of their authors. This year, at the same time that these announcements came down about Luna, a lot of RDI authors had subsequent books in their contracts canceled as well. If there is another line at HQ which is being treated like Luna, it’s RDI.

The Bombshell category novel is much more like what happened to Flipside. There, a few of the authors who were dumped saw their category books released as STs, which is what I’m hearing will be happening with Bombshells. With an ST line like Luna, where could they put them?

Interesting that they say they are focusing on urban fantasy, though. The urban fantasy series they just paid beaucoup bucks for (Rachel Vincent’s) was switched from Luna to MIRA soon after the sale was announced.

I loved “Poison Study.” So did my sister. I found it completely out of the norm in terms of the usual fantasy/romance formula, and it worked for me.

I read pretty much exclusively fantasy from eight until I was about 12, when it became fantasy and romance, and a few sci-fi (Star Wars novels [I was a nerd], and a couple Sarah Zettel, mostly). I’ve only recently started reading “normal” fiction, and I’m 21.

I can understand picking what you’re pretty sure’ll be good, because I can’t afford to spend too much, but am I the only one who reads the first chapter while in the bookstore and base my purchase off that and the back blurb?

Ha, whoops, managed to get a little HTML in that.

I’ve only read one Luna and it’s actually on my keeper shelf. I would have bought more but someone told me (or maybe I read it online) that they’re not guaranteed a HEA so I was wary and never bought another one. But if that’s not true then I would definitely buy it more often. I do love romantic historical fantasy and it’s frustrating having to read the back of the book to check for the HEA every time I try a new author.

Eek! HTML fix (I hope).

I like Poison Study very much. The romance was the weakest part of it, but the story overall was unusual and engaging.

Coming in late - and delurking. Although I have to declare a vested interest (I’m employed by Harlequin) I have NOTHING to do with Luna, so I have no gossip. However, I have just read Magic Study and it rocks. I think the world-building’s a lot clearer and more focussed in it, and the romance is secondary to the heroine’s voyage of self-discovery.

Marie B--
I come from the SF/F community, and I am in 100% agreement with you and Jane as to what “urban fantasy” means to readers of fantasy. To us, Neil Gaiman and Laurell Hamilton and Jim Butcher and even Gabriel Garcia Marquez qualify as “urban fantasy.” This is because we are an inclusive community.

But the marketing folks at most publishers don’t know from SF/F. Most SF/F lines don’t have a dedicated sales force--they are just another page in the giant catalogue that the sales people are flipping through.

The sales guys don’t have time to read every book put out by a publishing house, so target-audience-shorthand is the name of the game.

“Urban fantasy” isn’t a term they use much, if at all. If you say “urban fantasy,” they will likely say, “You mean with vampires and stuff, right?” Their primary experience with fantasy is paranormal romance, because that is a big seller and so even if they don’t read it, it’s on their radar.

-----------------------

I love (in the ironic sense) the misconceptions about who is reading what. “Epic fantasy is read by 13-year-old boys.” (Tell that to the fans of GRRM.) “Boys read SF and girls read fantasy.” “Boys read adventure and girls want love stories.” “Girls read books and boys don’t.” “Romance is only read by lonely, repressed housewives in the fly-over states.”

Oi.

Publishing is an industry that at least tries to be semi-scientific in its analysis of the market. Unfortunately, most of the folks collecting data and doing the analysis took Astronomy for Jocks as their science elective in college.

Thanks PC for giving us an update.  I was holding my breath hoping I’d see something from you letting us know there were still more of your books to come!

I like Poison Study very much.

I looked this up after reading this thread and put it on my Must Buy List for when I’m in the States next week. It looks awesome.

Jo...Cast in Courtlight by Michelle Sagara was published in August, haven’t heard anything on another installment.

Haven’t read Golden yet, been planning to based on so many good SB recomendations.  Just started Magic Study last night.

--E...liked your comments on stereotyping readers.  IMO you are correct about them being outdated, and probably inacurate. Seriously, hang out in bookstores and just watch who shops where, it can be surprising.

Lyra...you don’t have to like Poison Study just because some people loved it.  There are major authors other readers adore, that I cannot stand and will not read.  I tell my kids “If everyone in the world liked chocolate, there wouldn’t be enough for me!” Because seriously, I have met people who do not like chocolate.

Michelle K...your hubby reads fiction with you?  I’m sooooo envious.  How many others have hubbys who cross the stereotype boundaries and read fantasy and/or romance?

I don’t read by publisher, but find some have much better authors.  Don’t know if it’s because they pay better, or they have better “scouts” (sports term there).

Rokk on, Jeri!  Just throw a few extra “h"s in some nouns, and, bingo!  You’re gholden!

I got “Lover Awakened” yesterday and finished it at 5:30 this morning.  My husband referred to it as That Book, since it was basically the literary equivalent of crack and I, the sad, shivering crack whore slumped in the doorway, muttering about the long wait until “Lover Revealed.” Sad.  That’s what I am. 

But--

It’s been so long since I sucked down (eee...pun...weird sexual metaphor...or all of the above?) a book like I did with the BDB book series, that I’ll take the drug addiction to have my faith in why I read romance restored. 

One teeny, tiny leeetle question, though: can Zsadist’s name be Zsadist if the term “sadism” wasn’t really invented until after the Marquis de Sade, who died in 1814?  I know, I know, I’m straying into fangirl territory here, but you can take the textual scholar out of grad school, yadda yadda.

One teeny, tiny leeetle question, though: can Zsadist’s name be Zsadist if the term “sadism” wasn’t really invented until after the Marquis de Sade, who died in 1814?

Dunno, Zoe, but good question.  Maybe the Marquis de Zsade was actually a vampire who was around since before the Bruthahood.

You should go ask about it on JRW’s board.  I’m sure the RFG’s will be happy to address your question in a forthright manner.

“you don’t have to like Poison Study just because some people loved it.”

I know, but when I’ve read NOTHING but glowing reviews for a book, and then when I finish it I feel the urge to throw it out the window, I can’t help questioning my sanity. The thing is I haven’t found ANYBODY who has read it who disliked it (besides me), which is strange. Usually I can find at least one “professional” reviewer out of the hundreds out there whose opinion deviates from the norm, but this time I’ve found none. Just weirds me out a little

dl,

My husband also likes to read (although not quite as much as me) and read fantasy long before we met. He’s pretty much read most of my fantasy and liked it. In fact he really liked the “Cushiel” books (I couldn’t get past the first book), and Kim Harrison’s witch books, which I found… okay.

In fact the only thing I have to twist his arm to read are mysteries, which he swears he doesn’t like, except for Robert Parker. And JA Jance. And…

Where as he doesn’t even bother to try to get me to read science fiction, because I don’t like it. Except for Orson Scott Card. And Spider Robinson. And… (grin)

Michelle K...congrats, sounds like he’s a keeper.  Mine reads non-fiction almost exclusively, but I’m working on the kids!  Have either of you read Rob Thurman?

Lyra...reading preferences are a very personal thing.  Don’t worry about what you don’t like...just go find something else.  (it’s a secret so don’t tell anyone, but I read one PC Cast book.  She’s a very good author and it was OK, but I probably won’t read another.  But everyone here loves her stuff...go figure) SB is a great place to browse for new reading material, I have discovered some of my new favorite authors here!

Nope, it’s not just rumor. I got my information about Zettel, Golden, and Brennan from the Luna boards and Zettel’s newsgroup. Brennan said recently on the Luna boards that she is writing book one of the White Magic sequel trilogy on spec for another publisher. And Zettel’s final Camelot book is still coming out in the UK, so at least it is available somewhere.

An online friend of mine talked to Sagara at the bookstore where she works and not only is her third book coming out, but Luna might want more from her.

I believe Zettel, Brennan, and Dayton are the only Luna authors with cancelled series. When I first posted about this, there wasn’t all that much info, but I never said that Luna was in danger of being closed down, just that certain series were having trouble.

I heard about Luna wanting to focus on urban fantasy from a few Luna authors, but most of their traditional fantasy series still seem to be in the pipeline.

And a word of warning on Brennan’s series, I think it was supposed to end in an HEA, but it wasn’t satisfying to me.

DANG IT! I just picked up Caitlin Brennan’s first in that White Mountain trilogy. I’m gonna be ticked if the third one doesn’t get published. I’m already hooked on it. I really love the Luna line and love my fantasies to be FANTASY. Urban is fine but could we please still have some pure fantasy like Gail Dayton, Christie Golden, etc? sigh. whine whine whine

Stephanie, the third White Mountain book, Shattered Dance, comes out Oct 1.  The second one, Song of Unmaking, came out last year.  I don’t know when and if the 2nd and 3rd ones will come out in mass market size, though.

Yeah, the Luna books as they’ve been so far really seemed to fill a niche that other pubs weren’t, i.e., female-focused traditional fantasy.  I think the Powers That Be weren’t prepared for how “niche-y” that niche was, relative to the hordes of paranormal romance/urban fantasy readers.

(I mean “hordes” in the nicest way, of course.  I’m one of those hordes.  Or hhordes, if it’s a BDB book.)

There’s other “female-focused traditional fantasy” out there (I know my own first novel was marketed as a part of a cluster of such books), but it’s certainly true that it helps to have it gathered under an imprint, where it’s easier to find.

My mistake, Marie--I thought that group of Warner books (you and Carrie Vaughn and Lilith Saintcrow) were considered urban fantasy.

And speaking of Lilith’s books, my confirmation word is “hell57”!  Is that like the world’s worst ketchup?

They are, but I’m not; the guiding principle was more “girls kicking ass” than anything setting-based.  And I want to say there was one other in the group that wasn’t urban, but now I’m forgetting.  I thought there were four of us, though.

I’ve been reading the Luna books since the inception of the imprint. While most of the books I’ve picked up have been hits with both myself and my husband [yes, he reads fantasy and a romantic subplot doesn’t put him off if it is a well-written story], the misses really missed. I would love for them to release more of the books as mass market PB’s so I can try out new authors without feeling such a pinch in the pocketbook. I loved that PC’s Divine by Mistake was released in mass market pb for that reason.

It’s a shame that some really good series’ are getting cut. Hopefully they’ll find homes elsewhere.

Hi, all. Yeah, it’s taken me a while to get over here--not so much that licking one’s wounds takes time :P but figuring out what to do next does. I have the agent looking for other places to send the 3rd book. Harlequin/Luna did offer to hang onto the book and maybe bring it out as an e-book and foreign edition in 2008, but I sure would like to see it in paper somewhere in the US. So we’re looking around.

The Bombshell person’s experience is the same as mine. They paid the contract, and will either let me have the rights back or see about maybe sometime bringing it out maybe…

Someone else mentioned how unlikely it would be that a new publisher would be interested in the last book of a series when the 1st two books were owned by somebody else--and that may be a problem--but I do have ideas for More stories in that universe, so…

I do appreciate all the compliments and promise that I’ll do my best to live up to them with future books. And get Jeri’s book! And PC’s (Just finished Divine by Mistake, and it Rocks! Go PC!! - and you really do NOT know what those folks in the panhandle will do--either panhandle...)

Oh, I did hear that the books that transferred from Luna to Mira did so because Mira has the budget to promote the books that Luna doesn’t have. So maybe these fantasies will get the push they deserve.

I have Poison Study somewhere in my stack across the room...I’ll have to dig it out and take it with me when I head to the mountains next week…

All y’all totally rock!

dl,

Not only does my husband love to read, but he also does plumbing and wiring and general around-the-house maintance. I sometimes fear to let him out of my sight!

And Rob Thurman as in the author of “Nightlife”? We both *really* liked that book, and I am hoping for more by her. (At least I’m assuming her, since the copyright said Robin)

Regarding female focused traditional fantasy--there’s tons of it out there: Jennifer Roberson, Mercedes Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Patricia Briggs, Elizabeth Haydon, Jo Walton, Juliet McKenna, Holly Lisle, the aforementioned Sarah Zettel, Sara Douglas… even Peter S Beagle (the “Inkeeper’s Song” in particular). And Charles de Lint and Steven Brust have written some of my all time favorite female characters.

The fact that there are new lines putting out totally kick-ass female urban fantasy is just a bonus. (Which I completely appreciate by the way, since for a couple of years there it seemed like the only books I was interested in reading was older stuff I could find used.)

And Gail Dayton--I really hope that you find someone to publish the rest of the “Rose” series. My husband just finished the second and really liked it. (I’ve been on a mystery kick, so it’s still on my TBR list.)

And Marie Brennan as in “Doppelganger”? My husband and I both really enjoyed your book. Although my husband insists that he prdecited the ending, I think he exaggerates.

Sorry to go on so, but I love fantasy with strong female characters, and can go on about it for hours and hours. (grin)

Ok, I am way late in coming in on this, and most things have been said.

To update you on my series, Protector of the Faith will be out in February 2007.

When I turn in the proposal for the last 3 of the series We Shall See.  I think it will be interesting to say the least after what all has gone on before.

On another note, I had a different editor than anyone else at Luna and she is now gone…

Robin

Doppelganger is indeed my firstborn.  (And the sequel’s hitting shelves now, plug plug.)

Amen to your list of good female-centered fantasy, and were it not two a.m., I’d probably try to rustle up some additions to it.

Oh geez Marie, did you have to mention it’s coming out?  Now I have to spend today looking for it.  I loved Doppelganger.

^_^

It may or may not be out yet where you are—technically the street date isn’t until October—but I’ve been getting a lot of reports of it showing up early in various places.

Michelle k...Rob Thurman, has a sequil out about March.  Has a website she keeps current.  Nightlife is one of the very few books I have requested all my kids read, otherwise I leave them to their own choices.

Marie...your sequil out, the local BN is not careful about lay-down dates.  If I’m looking for early new releases, I check them first.  Will probably sneak its way into my TBR pile shortly.

The third White Magic book, Shattered Dance, is already out and I read it, hence the warning about the in my opinion, not so happily-ever-after ending. There was supposed to be a second trilogy but Luna cancelled it. Brennan is writing it anyway on spec for another publisher though.

Well, I giess ABE will be getting quite abit more business from me, if certain books are released overseas and not here.}:(

VERY disappointed with Harlequin.