Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

And I pose the question again: Do any of you think that there are authors (maybe even a LOT of authors) who think it’s unprofessional to participate on a blog called Smart Bitches Trashy Books? Do you think some of them find it insulting to the genre and really bad for public perception? If so, why is okay for us to be here? What if a magazine does a story about TRASHY NOVELS and the BITCHES WHO READ THEM?!?!

Teddy Pig, I think that everyone agrees that whatever any individual author does at her/his own events, or during personal interviews/appearances to promote his/her own image and books is their own business.

What they do at an RWA’s sponsored event? Not so. At an RWA’s event, all members represent the association as a whole--and most especially the better recognized names.

I keep thinking that most people who got to see the swanhat picture in the paper didn’t read further than “best seller romance author SK” to the part about the $56K+ raised for literacy.

Chicklet, I beg to disagree. I am not waiting for mainstream to afford me respect, and I don’t think the swanhat in itself (or the Shomi/manga cover gimmick) makes all the difference between having respect or not. The RWA’s National was not the appropriate venue for either, however, and that hurts the image of all romance writers, publishers, readers by reinforcing an already sucky stereotype.

Honestly, we’ve got a big-ass (hi, Nora) cultural divide going on here, and it’s not just about the nature of appropriate self-promotion.

The Shomi girls could walk down the street in Silicon Valley and not get a second look.  Girls wear outfits like that to my daughter’s high school and they’re not the immodest ones.  I’ve seen edgy cosplay, and that’s not it.  There are entire stores devoted to those socks around here; hell, I own some and have worn them to work.  (Mine have pink ribbons crossing from ankle to thigh.  I love them.)

And I understand that one poster says that the same outfits would get the girls arrested for prostitution in her town.  Standards vary.  A lot.  I’m just saying that when I see those costumes in the RWA context, I think “Edgy and hip”, not “Shameless self-promotion in whorish clothes.”

Swans, on the other hand, would definitely get you a second look here.  (And possibly the occasional request for your milliner, depending on how well you’d pulled the look off.)

Oh and the line about shortcuts? These aren’t M & M’s first books.  How many of their many traditionally promoted books can you name?

And if there were shortcuts in this business (besides being a celebrity, or related to the publisher) the queue for it would make it a longcut in no time…

Also, Neil Gaiman is the hottest thing on the planet.  When he walks into a room, women die from spontaneous estrogen overload.  If it weren’t that both of us are happily married to other people, I would totally do him in Macy’s front display windows during the Christmas rush.

(See?  Tastes vary.)

You know, I owe Teddy Pig because he just clarified something for me.

If this is about the money, then put on pasties and do a lap dance for the press.  Really, if we’re talking about “hey, if it gets me attention and makes money, it’s good,” then these people are geniuses. 

If it’s about the work, taking your work and by extension your readers and yourself seriously, then my arguments are good, I think. 

And now I must go get a life.  Curse you, Smart Bitches, for starting another great thread.

Victoria, you ask

And I pose the question again: Do any of you think that there are authors (maybe even a LOT of authors) who think it’s unprofessional to participate on a blog called Smart Bitches Trashy Books? Do you think some of them find it insulting to the genre and really bad for public perception? If so, why is okay for us to be here? What if a magazine does a story about TRASHY NOVELS and the BITCHES WHO READ THEM?!?!

My answer as a humble reader: the SBs are not representatives of RWA at an RWA sponsored event.

Their book--if I get this correctly--it’s not a romance novel but a book about the industry.

Their blog is their personal space, and the authors who comment here provide their own personal views on the topics posted.

This is an entirely different venue--what’s appropriate here is not appropriate elsewhere.

And that makes a huge difference when talking with outsiders to the genre (going back to karibelle’s excellent post earlier)

OVER 300 comments!

WOOHOO! You go SB!

I kept up with all the comments on this subject yesterday (because I so didn’t have anything better to do!), and then couldn’t sleep last night because I was so bugged.

I fall on the better-to-be-professional side of the fence.  However, what really bothers me is that the forum where the costumes were worn was a charity fundraising event.  The way I see it, the point of being at a literacy signing is to raise funds for literacy, right?  To promote oneself at such an event is a bit distasteful.  Pointing at oneself, screaming ‘look at me, buy my work’ detracts from the true message of ‘support the cause.’

Or maybe I’m wrong.  Maybe the literacy signing is a giant marketing fest, and donating the proceeds to literacy is an RWA ploy to appeal to the media and make the participants feel warm and fuzzy about their purchases.  I don’t know, I’ve never been.

What image does four thigh highs and a swan hat reinforce?  That we are kooky and look good in a mini skirt?  How does that not equal respect in the industry?  Uh oh - anyone in a mini skirt can not be a writer with a capital W.  Let’s get down to brass tacks.  Let’s get a list of what is acceptable attire because clearly conformity = respect.

T shirts with logos is apparently okay.  Skirts must be past your knees.  All stockings must be disguised under pants or skirts.  Cleavage is appropriate so long as the cleavage is not enhanced with lingerie.  Anyone who shows cleavage in such a way that would be enticing to the penis gender will be promptly handed a cherry emblazoned fichu and required to wear it at all times. Failure to wear a fichu will get you to the dunking tank where fellow authors will have the opportunity to call you prostitutes and pedophile bait.

Colored hair is okay even if it is a freakish dye job (not referring to you Candy but JAK).

Next year, my job as a volunteer will be to inspect all outfits so as to conform with the RWA approved list of attire.  Any non conforming author will be sent to her room for daring to promote herself against others.

I don’t have a gimmick. Being who I am isn’t a gimmick.

What I’m hearing here, on and off, are comments that express they wish they had the courage to wear a big swan hat, or the courage and the looks to pull off minis and thigh highs--because they’d stand out, get noticed in the crowd of other writers that way.

Wow.

Yeah, it probably would, but what a sad and sorry way to build a career. LOOK at me! And maybe if you do, you’ll look at my book. But first, please, please look at me.

There was a writer I knew way back in the day. She would go to the distributors early, early in the morning when she had a new release about to ship. She would go to see the truck drivers, take them doughnuts. And she would dress in provocative black lace and leather--the sort suitable for a night of clubbing and hooking up.

It got her noticed, and for a short time, it got the truckers to push her books onto the supermarket and drug store racks, and that kind of thing, so her numbers went up.

And then they didn’t. And if I mentioned her name, I’d wager very, very few here would know who I was speaking of. I can’t remember the last time she published.

Gimmicks don’t build careers.

Also years ago--when I was much closer (maybe even at) the age of M&M, there would be the occasional historical writer in costume at RWA. Some of those costumes were absolutely beautiful. I thought the same thing then I think now. Silly, and it reflects on all of us at the event.

Also, Neil Gaiman is the hottest thing on the planet.

(See?  Tastes vary.)

Not dissing Neil, have met him, think American Gods is brilliant, think Sandman is fascinating, just making the point that dressing like Sandman is deliberate. You are reacting to his look and his photos, does that make him slutty or embarrassing to graphic novels or fiction?

Yes, there’ll still be mantitty covers and ridiculous “Who’s your daddy?” titles, and there’ll be poorly written books that sell like pancakes. Horrid covers and horrible writing are not exclusive of any genre, as far as I know. And that, again, it’s not the point of the clothing debate, or the respect debate, I don’t think.

How can it not be relevant to the clothing or respect debate when then it is all related to image? And how can you dismiss the covers, and the odd titles when that most expressly is the image of romance to the general public? The genre isn’t known for costumes. It’s not known for its conferences. It’s not known for its awards that even its own readership knows next to nothing about and makes no impact on sales. Therefore this with the lack of mainstream review coverage means there is no barometer of “good writing” for the general public and gives “bad writing” claims more credence. And though great authors like Nora Roberts get write ups in the NYT all the time, when you mention romance, the first thing people think of is a Harlequin or a Mills & Boon filled with rich tycoons and pretty poor virgins. 

Nora & Jenny I don’t think that business suits equal prune faced nancies it’s just that the so-called “costume” the two authors were wearing seemed pretty normal and conventional to me. (I mean the look’s been done to death for a while now.) To me it is the grey area. (The swan would be nearer the “extreme.) I’ll use “professional” instead but since this isn’t referring to business suits I’m guessing it’s just...longer skirts with no striped socks, and make that the slate grey area. :P

So what is the issue here? If it’s just about a business conference etiquette and not making everyone feel uncomfortable because someone broke the dress code that’s neither here nor there to me. But if one is going to tie it in into the big Image of Romance to the World then it’s safe to say three costumed folk somewhere had a minuscule impact. Again there are other genres with costumed fans out the wazoo, with cultish fan bases, and their books are being taught in university courses (and not for that “cultural studies” stuff either).

We’re not talking about the 99% who don’t care. (Though I’d really question your percentages) We’re talking about people who were there. And the people who may have read the Dallas paper over their morning coffee and seen the photo of SK wearing the outfit--as an author, a representative of the genre at a national event sponsored by RWA.

Oh, I pulled those percentages out of my coffee mug, they were not meant to be taken as serious figures. Well, ok so the Dallas paper readers saw the swan hat and even if they didn’t have an opinion on romances one way or another it wasn’t improved. Ok. If everyone was dressed nicely would it have made a difference? Again I don’t see romance publishes conferences as a major battleground in the Quest to Save Romance, that’s why I can only shrug. Perhaps I’m just not being savvy. Professionals in the business would be more media sensitive and concerned.

~Skirts must be past your knees~ etc.

Now, Jane, this is just crap. I didn’t say anything remotely like that. Nor did I ever say everyone must conform to a certain look. Nor did anyone else (unless I missed it).

I said, and will say again. Costumes. Leave them home.

Let me also add that I saw you several times during the conference. You looked stunning (that’s genetics probably, and lucky you) and were always beautifully dressed.

Chicklet, I beg to disagree. I am not waiting for mainstream to afford me respect, and I don’t think the swanhat in itself (or the Shomi/manga cover gimmick) makes all the difference between having respect or not.

So it was just Kenyon’s photo being in the newspaper that made the universe collapse in on itself? If she had worn the hat to her own personal signing, at a Barnes & Noble or whatever, that would have been fine as long as her picture wasn’t printed anywhere?

It sounds like people are saying that because RWA is an industry-wide event, authors need to vet their outfits to make sure they’re representing the genre appropriately, especially at events where the press might take a picture. And that just reeks of the idea that I need to dress a certain way so I represent “all librarians” appropriately, or “all Minnesotans” or “all women.” Why am I responsible for how non-librarians, non-Minnesotans, or non-women perceive those groups of which I’m a member?

“Oh and the line about shortcuts? These aren’t M & M’s first books.  How many of their many traditionally promoted books can you name?

And if there were shortcuts in this business (besides being a celebrity, or related to the publisher) the queue for it would make it a longcut in no time…”

Apparantly you are right.  There are no shortcuts because while we have spent 300+ comments on their outfits, their work has gone virtually ignored.

Why are authors *first* worried about GAINING respect from outside, from the “mainstream,” (tricky to define when this genre accounts for 50% of sales, right?

Romance authors should be worried about LOSING respect from the *massive* readership they already have.  I’ve started a thread on this at the AAR Reader to Reader board, with images posted for those who are not “in the know” and haven’t seen it.  It will be interesting to gauge the primary readership reaction and I think they deserve “in” on this conversation.

http://aarboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=1070

This issue of respect was brought up on the previous issue of ATBF.  My retort to that challenge now is the same as it was then.  I b*tch and moan about what I see as the sorry state of the romance genre because *I* want to respect what personally has taken up so much of my time, my money, and my devotion over the years.  Respect for this genre and its authors has been trickling out of my little psyche, year after year, more copiously as time flows.  I am angry, and sad, about that.

IMO, outside respect is *far* secondary.

-Gail

but if I were somebody else writing in that Shomi line, I would not be happy.  In fact, what we’re arguing is that they branded all of us. 

So I’m one of the other Shomi authors.  And I have no problem with Liz and Mar’s attire nor their marketing plan.  I support them 100%. 

From what I can see from this never ending debate is that somehow Liz and Mar cheapened the entire image of RWA because they wore thigh highs and mini-skirts.  That was not their intent.  Their intent was to show an entire new group of readers that Romance is cool.  Yes, there’s a group that says all romance writers wear swans on their heads, there’s a group that says all writers lounge around in their pink gowns and tiara’s eating bonbons while holding onto white poodles and dictating to their secretaries.  There are all kind of images out there that readers do or do not want to be associated with. Liz and Mar just created another image.  An image that says give our books a try.  Maybe you’ll like them.  There are all kinds of genre’s in romance from erotica to inspirational that target all kinds of audiences.  This is just a way to target a new audience at a venue that is interested in new trends in writing.  They haven’t cheapened RWA.  They aren’t whoring for a line.  They’re targeting an audience. 

And backing it up with some great writing.

Jane wrote,

Let’s get a list of what is acceptable attire because clearly conformity = respect.

Any non conforming author will be sent to her room for daring to promote herself against others.

Jane, I think the missing perspective here is: venue, VENUE, VENUE.

Plus the fact that between rigidity and outrageousness there is--as has been said repeatedly above--a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge grey are available for self expression.

Not dissing Neil, have met him, think American Gods is brilliant, think Sandman is fascinating, just making the point that dressing like Sandman is deliberate.

He’s been dressing like that since long before Sandman was a runaway hit.  He only wears black.  It’s a Thing.  A few years back he auctioned for charity the black leather jacket he wrote when he was writing Sandman, again before it was a hit. 

I once made Neil a cup of tea from real leaves in my own pot with soymilk—does that count?  *g*

I think it’s not surprising that Teddy and I are both from the San Francisco Bay Area (motto:  “When Western civ collapses like the new Rome, remember we got there first.")

It seems to me, the mainstream buys romance in droves already. But in truth, *everything* women do is discounted and thought of as fluffy and silly.

We can wear professional clothing and have the most fabulous, non mantitty covers evar, and we will *still* be considered fluffy and silly because we write about that “love junk” and therefore we aren’t serious. If there aren’t swan hats, there’ll be passages read from books.

I get Nora’s point because she has to deal with every thing as sort of the official voice of romancelandia. That’s got to be frustrating.

But you know, holding three people responsible for upholding the professionalism of romance at a public event with more than three hundred different authors, seems extreme to me.

Romance is such a big genre, there are lots of different readers and lots of different authors across wide generational and taste ranges.

We don’t all think the same way. We don’t all act the same way. We don’t all write the same way. This is what makes romance, all creative endeavors, so special. I’m not saying people are stuffy or trying to force suits on everyone. But I do think the reaction to what was a totally predictible event (the media finding something to make fun of romance with) is making us dance to the tune of people who are predisposed to minimalizing women’s endeavors to begin with.

The truth is, the rock bottom, truth is, they will always make fun of romance. We will always be seen, by those who don’t know, as silly and fluffy. So why are we worrying about it? Why are we working so hard, at the expense of our own, to appeal to people who are never going to like us? They’re not going to buy our books anyway. Why do we let ignorant jerks who are always looking for something to make fun of dictate our actions?

Whoops, hit “submit” instead of “preview.”

Why am I responsible for how non-librarians, non-Minnesotans, or non-women perceive those groups of which I’m a member?

I meant to say why should I *alone* be responsible for how others perceive whatever group I belong to? Why isn’t the aggregate enough?

And, more germane to the point, why should authors make so much effort to not draw attention to themselves “inappropriately” when publishers are still doing horrid mantitty covers and who’s-the-daddy? stories? Because I think those latter two are much, much greater negative influences on outsider opinions of the genre.

Gail, while I agree with other points you’ve made upthread, I disagree with this one:

IMO, outside respect is *far* secondary.

Why? Because the romance novel industry needs to attract new readers in order to grow, and it needs to grow if it’s to survive in the face of the many other entertainment avenues competing for the public’s money and attention.

If it’s about the work, taking your work and by extension your readers and yourself seriously, then my arguments are good, I think.

If so, then why aren’t people blogging about Liz’s starred review in PW?  Or her elegant photo and interview in PW the following week?

Yes, she did something controversial; some people liked it, some didn’t. Most of the people who like it, or are intrigued by it are her target audience.

Okay, if you try something controversial, and/or if you have a sense of humor about your genre, even if do the work of writing a good book and you can sell it, you’re not serious about the work?

So Lemony Snickett, not serious about the work?

Over at Karen’s I had yet another aha moment.

It’s a matter of presenting yourself in a non-flamboyant manner out of respect not just for yourself but for your coworkers. It’s a matter of not branding people who might not like your choice of branding.

Nora R. put it in terms of a whole genre but I had to make it smaller to understand.

Now I got it. Also I see that it’s sort of out of respect for the work itself...Sure, it’s great watching other people wear the lampshade and have fun. The fans hold the party with the work you give them. You provide the actual party goods and let them play (or maybe hire someone if you have the money). Otherwise it might look like enforced fun or you’re not confident enough about the work to let it stand on its own.

Live and let live and I sure as hell don’t condemn any writer who plays--RT sounds like a blast.  But I think I understand this now and, except for Beau Monde or other events where dress up is expected and no one will be jarred, I’d feel uncomfortable presenting any public image other than something sort of not subdued, but not outrageous--i.e. professional.

My answer as a humble reader: the SBs are not representatives of RWA at an RWA sponsored event…

This is an entirely different venue--what’s appropriate here is not appropriate elsewhere.

Seems to me there have been two different threads here. 1) People were dressed up at an RWA-sponsored event, and should have been more respectful.

And 2) Any author who behaves outrageously reflects on all the other hard-working writers of romance and disrespects the genre. If the press picks up on that, it makes my job that much harder. So have some dignity, people.

So in regards to #2, how far do we need to take that, and are the Bitches a big ass swan hat? This IS a public domain and the Bitches do draw attention from the press. There are many romance writers who would fight to the death not to have their books labeled “trashy” even with great affection. So how does our participation here reflect on those professionals and the public perception of the genre? 

My point (again): who draws the line and where? Who decides what hurts the genre and what is just good fun?

~But you know, holding three people responsible for upholding the professionalism of romance at a public event with more than three hundred different authors, seems extreme to me.~

I don’t hold them responsible for upholding the professionalism of romance at a public event. I hold them responsible for choosing to dress in costume at a professional, public event.

‘Why are authors *first* worried about GAINING respect from outside, from the “mainstream,” (tricky to define when this genre accounts for 50% of sales, right? “

I would argue that 50% of sales does not equal 50% of readership.  It has been my observation that fans of romances novels gobble them up at a faster pace than other kinds of books.  Especially when you consider your typical Harlequin or Silouette that is so short I can read it in an hour. I once began and finished two in a Dr.’s waiting room.  I am a fast reader, but no more so than most people who read a lot.

Money is not the same as respect.  I have no doubt that Nora Roberts works just as hard to get a book on the shelves as James Patterson.  She deserves the same respect.

side note about Lemony Snicket--my relative who works for his publisher says poor Daniel Handler as a writer for adults doesn’t get the same lines out the door as his persona does. That has to be a very odd sensation being out-sold by your imaginary self.

Gail, while I agree with other points you’ve made upthread, I disagree with this one:

IMO, outside respect is *far* secondary.

Why? Because the romance novel industry needs to attract new readers in order to grow, and it needs to grow if it’s to survive in the face of the many other entertainment avenues competing for the public’s money and attention.

Posted by azteclady on 07/19 at 09:04 AM

---> Hmmm, I concede this point azteclady.  I’ve recently returned to romance reading (we’re talking, like, 2 months ago) after taking a self-enforced 2-year hiatus due to general disgust with the genre.  During that time, I spent a sh*tload of money on DVDs and other multimedia as well as books from other genres and general fic.  If the romance genre ain’t entertaining me, I will use my pocketbook to find other ways to do so much more satisfyingly.  And do so quite easily, to boot.

-Gail

~Any author who behaves outrageously reflects on all the other hard-working writers of romance and disrespects the genre.~

I might *head-desk* when this happens, but that’s too general. If the outrageous behavior is at the author’s individual signing or event, her lookout.

If it’s at my professional organization’s mass author charity signing event, it becomes mine, too.

Maybe I’m overly optimistic but I really disagree with the notion that romance novels will never gain respect.

Thanks to Nora Roberts and people like her in the romance industry, it is already gaining more respect. It will take time but, once, SF got no respect and then came the wave of readers who had grown up on Asimov and Heinlein and who demanded respect for their genre.

Once comic books were far outside the mainstream. With the work of Will Eisner, “Maus,” “Watchman,” “Dark Knight Returns,” and the aforementioned Neil Gaiman, the genre became mainstream--look at the X-Men movies, the Spider-Man movies, and “Batman Begins.” Heck, literary fiction writer Jodi Picoult is now writing Wonder Woman for DC comics.

There is no reason to assume that in twenty years that much of the automatic “romance novels? yeesh” response will still be there for the majority of people. The more women in positions of power in the country, chances are the more people in power who *do* read romance novels. And that’s going to cause a change in respect.

It is not a lost cause.

I guess if the issue is that the literacy autographing was an RWA sponsored event, and therefore people needed to dress to respect RWA, then RWA needs to mandate what they deem appropriate dress.  Which would suck, IMO.  I have little respect for people who want to judge everyone in an industry by the acts/dress of one person.  I think people judge Michael Jackson and Tom Cruise independently and don’t write off the music and acting professions.

The romance fans will continue being fans.  I agree that seeing Jennifer Crusie dressed as Wonder Woman would have been shocking, but anyone who’s met her knows that’s not what she’s about.  SK’s fans clearly weren’t intimidated by the fake swan on her head, or they would have fled.

When I tried to say hello to SK at the literacy autographing after I realized it was her beneath the hat, she hardly gave me any time because she was greeting fans.  I left her to her business, which I think she takes quite seriously--despite her quirkiness. She later told me she felt bad for ignoring me and bought me a box of chocolates.  (Her fans waited more than an hour in line, by the way.  I was there more than 2.5 hours, and she still had a huge line when I left.) It wasn’t like SK was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt with a swan on her head.  She had one a corset and makeup that matched (I think...).

I understand the “act respectful” when it comes to the genre, but I’m one of those people who hates it when some people look at what a person has on and deems it inappropriate--ie, “She should wear a full piece, not a bikini.  She’s too old for that.  Too fat for that.” So, while I wouldn’t wear a swan hat, I won’t say SK shouldn’t.  I think it’s more appropriate at RT, where most everyone dresses up, but oh well. 

I’ll never forget a past RWA conference where Anne Stuart was the luncheon speaker.  At one point, she put on a feather boa and went on to say that you can’t take yourself too seriously when you’re wearing a feather boa.  She talked about being a “goddess” and we all knew she wasn’t nuts, just having a great time. She ended with a sort of conga line through the crowd, with authors joining her.  Maybe I missed the backlash (I doubt there was one), but I only heard people saying how much fun that luncheon was, and how it was one of their favorites ever.

I also agree with the comment that a site called SMART BITCHES TRASHY BOOKS doesn’t help the naysayers anymore than SK’s swan hat did.  But, I love it anyway. 

We’ll never control anyone else nor anyone else’s opinions.  All we can do--especially in interviews, etc--is to promote the genre the way we’d like to see it promoted, and not worry about what others are doing.

Yes, I lost my head a bit there.  I think my ability to make reasoned comments anymore has passed.  I think I might have come down on the “no costume” side (after all when I first saw Kenyon’s hat, I named it “big ass” because that was so noticeable) and because attention can be drawn other ways like Farrah Rochon who also drew my notice because of her readers coming en masse in red t shirts and red bags.  She’s a debut author if anyone is interested.  I haven’t read her book by her fans were charming.

But then my back got up by some of the comments that were insulting and condescending and didn’t make any good sense to me and I wondered how I could travel over to the other side.  In a debate tug of war, the unreasoned comment often makes the one side slide into the mud.  Probably my over the top comment is helping to balance the other unreasoned comments out.

Maybe the controversy comes down to this: the giant RWA conference is, at best, an intensely weird cauldron of author egos, fears, competition and quiet, seething jealousy. Always has been. All the nicey-nice “girlfriends bonding professionally” attitudes are a cover for shark-like feuds, resentments and jockeying for attention from editors, agents, readers, and the media. Lots of established authors get agitated and/or seriously depressed by the atmosphere and no longer attend. Me being one of them. Authors who go the extra mile to draw attention to themselves via costumes or whatever add a whole ‘nother layer of crazed bitchery to the conference mood, and it’s not a good thing.

I guess if the issue is that the literacy autographing was an RWA sponsored event, and therefore people needed to dress to respect RWA, then RWA needs to mandate what they deem appropriate dress.  Which would suck, IMO.  I have little respect for people who want to judge everyone in an industry by the acts/dress of one person.  I think people judge Michael Jackson and Tom Cruise independently and don’t write off the music and acting professions.

The romance fans will continue being fans.  I agree that seeing Jennifer Crusie dressed as Wonder Woman would have been shocking, but anyone who’s met her knows that’s not what she’s about.  SK’s fans clearly weren’t intimidated by the fake swan on her head, or they would have fled.

When I tried to say hello to SK at the literacy autographing after I realized it was her beneath the hat, she hardly gave me any time because she was greeting fans.  I left her to her business, which I think she takes quite seriously--despite her quirkiness. She later told me she felt bad for ignoring me and bought me a box of chocolates.  (Her fans waited more than an hour in line, by the way.  I was there more than 2.5 hours, and she still had a huge line when I left.) It wasn’t like SK was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt with a swan on her head.  She had one a corset and makeup that matched (I think...).

I understand the “act respectful” when it comes to the genre, but I’m one of those people who hates it when some people look at what a person has on and deems it inappropriate--ie, “She should wear a full piece, not a bikini.  She’s too old for that.  Too fat for that.” So, while I wouldn’t wear a swan hat, I won’t say SK shouldn’t.  I think it’s more appropriate at RT, where most everyone dresses up, but oh well. (On a side note, what would reporters think of how much we writers frequented the bar?  Let’s face it, if someone wanted to, they could chastise us for that--if they were looking for something negative to say).

I’ll never forget a past RWA conference where Anne Stuart was the luncheon speaker.  At one point, she put on a feather boa and went on to say that you can’t take yourself too seriously when you’re wearing a feather boa.  She talked about being a “goddess” and we all knew she wasn’t nuts, just having a great time. She ended with a sort of conga line through the crowd, with authors joining her.  Maybe I missed the backlash (I doubt there was one), but I only heard people saying how much fun that luncheon was, and how it was one of their favorites ever.

I also agree with the comment that a site called SMART BITCHES TRASHY BOOKS doesn’t help the naysayers anymore than SK’s swan hat did.  But, I love it anyway. 

We’ll never control anyone else nor anyone else’s opinions.  All we can do--especially in interviews, etc--is to promote the genre the way we’d like to see it promoted, and not worry about what others are doing.

By the way, I have a pic of me and SK with the hat.  I’m happy to send it to people who’d like to see what it looked like.

“I think people judge Michael Jackson and Tom Cruise independently and don’t write off the music and acting professions.” --Kayla Perrin, I think.

*Hot Button* HELL, no, I don’t judge Michael Jackson or Tom Cruise independently of their private behavior and opinions!!  In my eyes, they have denigrated their profession, embarassed their families (and mankind in general), and caused me to think twice before shelling out *any* hard-earned cash for their artistic endeavors.  Same goes for a slew of other celebrities.  I’m not one that can judge a person purely by his/her creative work.  Sorry, not that holy.

I don’t want the RWA to institute a dress code--and believe me, they wouldn’t. They recommend business casual, and glam for the Ritas. People do what they want.

We’re grown ups. We’re creative, professional women, at a conference for creative professional writers, pubbed and unpubbed, also attended by publishing professionals, press, reviewers, readers, bloggers, booksellers, librarians.

Appearance matters. Behavior matters, words matter, the books matter. It all matters.

Sure the covers matter--a lot. But mostly we don’t get to choose and control them. We do choose and control our appearance, behavior, words, what we write.

And saying we won’t get respect while we have mantitty covers may be true. But we sure as God ought to respect ourselves enough to want to present ourselves in a way that doesn’t invite snickers and stares and ADD to the snickers and stares generated by the mantitty.

yeah, you’re right, it’s all that, deb, but at the same time it’s also a great time laughing with friends and talking to supportive authors and learning and I love the thing even with all the dark undertones that must lurk in any competitive world. (I wish I could go again.)

Maybe the Rebels of Romance should try to dress up as writers next year. 

Revolutionary. 

But wait...then people would have to focus on the book.  Woops.

>>Sure the covers matter--a lot. But mostly we don’t get to choose and control them. We do choose and control our appearance, behavior, words, what we write.<<

If you’re at my stage, you don’t get any control at all over the covers.  So all you can do is work your behind off to write the best book you can, and hope people will find it and read it and talk about it - either BECAUSE of the current undressed man cover phase or in SPITE of it.  Because, the bottom line in all of this is that we want the readers to be talking about the STORY next week, month, year, five years from now.  And all we can control is how hard we work to make each book better than the last.

My answer as a humble reader: the SBs are not representatives of RWA at an RWA sponsored event.

Their book--if I get this correctly--it’s not a romance novel but a book about the industry.

But I think interesting points are being raised by Victoria’s question about the name of the blog, and Sybil’s comment about the SB’s book-to-be:

But it is hard… anything that mocks or pokes fun at romance is… I mean look at the SB book to be.  We never really talked about it so I have no clue how they plan to go about it.  But if it will be like the blog, it is fun and amusing to us.  To the fans of the genre who ‘get’ romance.  But to outsiders who are looking for a reason to mock romance… will they get it?  Or will they just nod along.

What effect do reader conventions, online communities of romance readers and romance blogs etc have on the public perception of the romance genre? Maybe not very much, or maybe more than we think.

Do we as readers have any responsibility to the genre we love? Maybe not unless we choose to, but if we do, how do we strike a balance between humour, justified criticism of certain aspects of the genre, and celebration of those other aspects which deserve respect/praise?

Also, is there a pic of the swan posted anywhere?  I’m desperate to see it now.

Dear Author has a link of the SK photo.

Jesus, I’ve got to get to work.

Go here, Alesia.

http://aarboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=1070

All photos in question are posted.  My public service to the romance-reading community.  No thanks necessary ;)

-Gail

Holy mother of God. That is a big-ass swan.

I want one. I swear never to wear it in public but every night, with the shades drawn. . .

Wow.

*****Hot Button* HELL, no, I don’t judge Michael Jackson or Tom Cruise independently of their private behavior and opinions!!  In my eyes, they have denigrated their profession, embarassed their families (and mankind in general), and caused me to think twice before shelling out *any* hard-earned cash for their artistic endeavors.****

For *their* artistic endeavors--that’s my point.  Do you no longer watch movies or listen to music because of those two people?  If so, then they have far too much power.  Have you lumped Kate Hudson or Tina Turner into the “Michael Jackson and Tom Cruise” pot?

If people are offended by SK, then perhaps they’ll stop reading her or not start.  If their only impression of her is the pic in the Dallas paper, then maybe they’ll laugh and not pick up any of her books.  But in the grand scheme of things, I don’t see this mattering to her career, nor to any of ours, quite frankly.

But that’s my opinion.

Now, I’m off to work.  These debates can suck you in and drain positive energy.

“For *their* artistic endeavors--that’s my point.  Do you no longer watch movies or listen to music because of those two people?  If so, then they have far too much power.  Have you lumped Kate Hudson or Tina Turner into the “Michael Jackson and Tom Cruise” pot?” --Kayla Perrin

-->You’re right, Kayla, I still highly respect other actors and singers for their craft.  However, my OVERALL image of the entertainment industry is tarnished and eroded away bit by bit each time a stupid celebrity inserts foot in mouth, dismisses the field of psychiatry, or, in some cases, commits a felony.

So even though I am not an author, I can see *clearly* see where Ms. Roberts, Ms. Crusie, and others are coming from (although Deborah Smith and Kate Rothwell’s pedophile-bait innuendos were *completely* out of line, IMO).  I think my own personal reader distaste for public antics by authors/celebs only reinforces their position of outrage.

-Gail

LOLOL
I have to start visiting you guys more often (that MF Dallas line--ha!)!
I totally agree with your assessment of the whole “costume” thing. There was nothing offensive about the outfits (and damn, if I could look that good in it, I’d think about dressing that way regularly!), and certainly nothing wrong with bloggers being in attendance--and you’re right, the bloggers are chief advocates of the writers. Not a bad idea to stop worrying about everyone else and just focus on the business of writing!

Deep lurker here. Wow, wonderful powerful conversation. I’m not going to directly address all of the great comments above, just something that’s been niggling at me throughout the entire discussion.

It’s interesting that I perceive this issue as much of (if not more of) a gender issue as opposed to a constitutes professionalism in this given scenario. Why? Because I very much doubt a conference made up of mostly male authors would have this type of a debate. I doubt it would even hit the radar. I could be wrong and welcome any corrections on my perception but this topic thread (not SK or the magna costumes specifically) almost makes it to the ‘she was asking for it’ based on a woman’s choice of clothing conversation. (Yes, a purposeful extreme choice of an example because to me although the topics are so very different there are many core similaries when one breaks down the arguments.)

I’ve attended RT twice, but only heard about the RWA conference, so I will limit my perceptions to RT as it pertains to authors and the message that I’m receiving from this conversation.

At RT I looked out across the multiple events and saw a lot of women just like me. Oh, there was a little bit of superfiscial diversity among the physical appearance of the attendees, especially at the parties, but nothing like the neighborhood I live in and nothing like the IT conferences I’ve attended.

For example: the local natural food co-op I frequent has people with full-body tattoos and multiple piercings; they wear corporate suits, sweats, leather, colorful African outfits, or Muslim burkhas; they are hippies, peaceniks, goths, yuppies, puppies, college students, etc. My god, it’s a Petri dish of culture in one grocery store and absolutely freaking wonderful. But what constitutes professionalism to each of these individuals is just that: individual interpretation based on who they are and what they want given a specific instance. Sometimes it works to the individual’s advantage, sometimes it doesn’t.

So where am I going with this? I get the whole professional attire, professional conference, and even the respect arguments. Been there, done that in my own life. I’m true to myself and my own interpretation of appropriateness given the circumstance, but here’s my question back: where the heck is the diversity in this group of writing professionals? Why is it that you have 450 authors and only three stuck out in the crowd? Where are the tattoos & piercings? the Birkenstocks? the African tribal wear? the Asian kimonos?

Yeah, I get that my examples play into stereotypes, but I’m purposefully pushing the stereotypes to ask this question: Why this need to present such a unified public image of sameness?

I ask because that’s the message I’m ultimately receiving from this conversation, and even though I personally love to get dressed up in a ‘smart-looking’ suit, the one thing I’d expect from a group of eclectic, creative artists is a diversity of appearance that represents individual personalities and writing styles rather than some unspoken professional image standard.

I would posit that other entertainers/creative artists such as painters, sculptors,actors or singers don’t have the same requirements of tacit ‘professional image’ conformity (I’d say just that opposite) that I keep hearing repeated in many of these messages. I would also posit that men do not get the same level of critique that these three females are receiving, but I do believe that pretty standard regardless of the industry.

I guess that’s what I don’t like about this conversation, it ultimately feels like ‘did you see what she was wearing?’that I heard from the gossip circles as I was growing up or the critiques we get of female ‘stars,’ even though the arguments being presented are much more indepth and better articulated.

And I guess that’s why it keeps coming back to a gender issue for me rather than a professional image issue.

So what would I personally like to see at a major author signing event like RWA’s Literacy signing, either as an author or a fan? A sea of diversity that truly represents exactly how diverse the genre and the authors really are. I want to see the colors, taste the flavors and hear the symphonies that every author brings to their craft. But maybe that’s just me. Or maybe I’m just fooling myself and the criticisms of sameness and conformity regarding the romance genre are more true than I’d like to admit, because I really do see issues such as professional attire at a RWA signing event as a mirror of the issues which plague the romance genre as a whole. Simplistic viewpoint? [shrug] Perhaps.

Finally, while I agree that success in publishing should be about the actual writing/storytelling skill of the author, let’s face it that’s not how this industry works. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: some great books get overlooked, some terrible books make the bestseller lists. If the publishing industry and author success were just about the work, that wouldn’t happen; instead this happens more than most of us would care to admit. And I believe that this is true of any industry one cares to examine.

AQ

I can only speak as a reader here: I would think that a book signing event would have a more relaxed and fun atmosphere. Even at a professional meeting there are events that are more laid back and I would’ve classified the signing as just such an event.  I’ve been to many professional science meetings and we’re lucky if we can get people dressed even business casual.  But scientists generally aren’t in the position where they have to ‘prove’ that they’re professionals.

However, the swan hat was freaking scary as hell.  I would not venture near SK, but since she’s got a crazy fangirl following, I don’t see that anything would faze them. If they all had a fun time, more power to them.

The Shomi outfits would probably draw me towards the M&M table.  They look kind of fun and I expect the authors would probably be interesting to talk to. Truthfully, if I hadn’t seen the discussion here, the appropriateness of their attire would never had crossed my mind.

That being said, people in full-out costumes would make me leery of approaching the table, but that’s just me.

Exactly, AQ. I’m repeating myself again, but it seems clear to me that the line in the sand is ”I don’t think that’s professional.”

The topic started with SK’s swan (Which many people found unprofessional and unseemly, but not all.) and the Shomi costumes (which seemed umprofessional and offensive to some, but not most.)

But from there we moved on to outrageous writers who get their picture in the paper and women who wear boas to a public event. Then authors who giggle on television or tell reporters how HOT their books are. Then authors who draw attention to themselves when other writers are in attendence at a public event.

These women don’t respect themselves or the genre???

It is a slippery slope, and we’ve already slid a ways down it.

Let me make clear that I love this blog, and I think it’s GOOD for the genre, but I’d imagine there are writers out there who would violently argue the opposite. To each his own. Tacky hats and Trashy blogs included.

Does anyone know when the new Harry Potter book is coming out?

Yolande, wearing a Mexican wrestling outfit accompanied by her lovely crew of tag team midgets

I just need to interject with this little observation: the woman who strikes me as just so incredibly classy, based PURELY on her dress (I don’t know her but to say hi to her) is Jacquie D’Alessandro.
And while I don’t really have objections to people dressing in peculiar or attention-commanding ways, I will say that if I wanted to emulate someone as far as style and class, Jacquie would be my model

As a total aside to Jane---

The Avon authors were not at all expected to wear the T-shirts with their bookcovers on them.  The publicity dept made them for the first time last year because RWA banned posters (rightly so, they blocked the other authors) and Avon wanted to still make something for their authors they could take home with them.

Personally I was thrilled.  I never know what to do with posters, and the T-shirts are huge and comfy to sleep in.

JQ

P.S.  Apparently half the T’s got stolen in the Harper mail room last year.  Makes you wonder who is running around Manhattan wearing giant romance novel T-shirts, and if it’s the same person who stole the van in front of the Cornell Medical Center full of preserved dismembered heads.)

Gail wrote:  *Hot Button* HELL, no, I don’t judge Michael Jackson or Tom Cruise independently of their private behavior and opinions!!  In my eyes, they have denigrated their profession, embarassed their families (and mankind in general), and caused me to think twice before shelling out *any* hard-earned cash for their artistic endeavors.*****

And to be clear, I was saying that people are smart enough to judge Tom Cruise and Michael Jackson as weirdos and they don’t think that the film and music industries are ridiculous because of *these two people alone* (or some others).  There are many reasons why people might come down hard on Hollywood or the music biz that really have nothing to do with MJ or TC.  Or Paris Hilton.  And even though there are negative feelings (to a degree) about these industries, they still make huge $$$.

Apparently half the T’s got stolen in the Harper mail room last year.  Makes you wonder who is running around Manhattan wearing giant romance novel T-shirts, and if it’s the same person who stole the van in front of the Cornell Medical Center full of preserved dismembered heads.

I suddenly have the image of a particularly horrifying scrarecrow in my mind…

“Regarding fetishes anyone watch that CSI where the had the convention of people who dress up in animal costumes for gratification.  I don’t remember the name.”

It was called “Fur and Loathing.” Funny episode. I have it on DVD.

My MC is attacked by a shark, but I’m not planning to wear a shark head to my first convention. (Land Shark, anyone?)

I like the idea of pins and plastic replicas of key components in our books, but I don’t see Jenny pinning a plastic alligator to her chest.

Outfits (I won’t call them costumes) like the ones described wouldn’t raise an eyebrow in my town. My daughter recently graduated from a Catholic high school with mandatory uniforms. On ‘Civvies Day’, some of the getups the students wore would curl your tonails.

Hey, I thought that’s what Barbara Cartland wore while going out to get the daily newspaper.

I really will get to work after this--had a half hour power outage.  This whole comment has had me wondering about the issues romance writers (and readers) truly face in terms of respect.

Swan hats aside, this is what comes to mind:

1) We’re too prolific.  If you can “crank” out so many books a year, they can’t be good.

So, do we all start writing one book a year to show that we “lament” over each word, that we revise, revise, revise until we’re blind to prove that yes, the books we write require hard work just like any other type of fiction?

2) We write about sex.

Don’t know what we’ll do about this one, and don’t understand why people can get their knickers twisted over the depiction of sex in monogamous relationships.  Nor why they equate romance sex with porn.

3) Romance readers and writers look like they NEED the fantasy.  Yes, I’ve heard this, even from booksellers, who talk about the “overweight” writers and readers who look like they can only get laid in their dreams...or through fiction.

To me, that’s utterly offensive and judgmental.  And I don’t know how we change that perception.

There was something else, but it’s escaping me.  But I’m curious as to what you all think are the major hurdles to respect that we in this genre have yet to leap over?

~Why is it that you have 450 authors and only three stuck out in the crowd?~

I don’t happen to think this is true, or that anyone’s said so. Three authors wore costumes, and that’s what sparked the discussion. Not that 447 others faded away.

And again we come back to conformity v diversity or creativity. It’s not, it’s not, it’s just not.

It’s about COSTUMES at this venue. Not about making us all pod people garbed in any one person’s vision of professional attire.

We’re all different body types, different personality types, different colors, heights, styles. There’s plenty of diversity of attire at RWA chosen by women to--hopefully--suit those body types, etc, etc.

And RWA is not RT. Different events entirely.

And if I walked into the Literacy Signing and saw a bunch of tribal wear, costumes, body piercings on display, and so on--I’d do my stint, because that’s what I agreed to do. And then I’d be done, and no longer sign up to participate. Because I don’t need or want to be part of an event that promotes authors in costumes.

Hell, why not ride in naked on a white horse with a long blond wig--since we keep going to extremes on this issue. Lady Godiva’s literary.

OK, maybe another approach is that anything/person/or group struggling for legitimacy, respect and dignity will have to be beyond reproach and even more vigilante about behaviors (including dress) until said goals are met.

Things/persons or groups having met said goals can let their hair down because they’re considered stogey old fuddy duddies at this point and need to get the burr out of their butt.

****Things/persons or groups having met said goals can let their hair down because they’re considered stogey old fuddy duddies at this point and need to get the burr out of their butt.****

LOL, Najida!

Because I object to costumes at this venue, I’ve got a burr in my butt?

Or am I reading this completely wrong? Which is entirely possible.

What is worse in regard to the romance genre receiving respect:

A photo of a swan on SK’s head in a highly circulated newspaper...or having some of the hateful comments to this post printed in the same publication?

There have been many valid, differing viewpoints, and this commentary has been nothing less than educational.  As a reader, I appreciate those on both sides that have been able to articulate their views with tact. 

But as a writer, it has been stomach acid inducing, and I feel awful for those on the receiving end of the over-the top, hateful comments.

It is possible to be smart and bitchy without being hateful.

And again we come back to conformity v diversity or creativity. It’s not, it’s not, it’s just not.

Actually, it kind of is… I’ve known Liz for years. She has broken tater tots at my table with my kids. Readers of her chicklit--particularly Confessions of an Ice Princess--know that she used to be a CPA. That at a certain point in her life she decided she’d followed the rules and it wasn’t for her. She wanted to change her life.  First she went to work in Antartica...then she started writing books. (She sold the first one on proposal.) She travels all over now at the drop of a hat.

As for what she wears?  Orange and green sneakers come to mind, and a pair of silver ones too, a cool pair of high-heeled combat boots. Hip hugger camo pants and usually something black from Paris. She never looks trashy, she always looks hip and she NEVER looks like anyone else.

She has her own style, in fact, you could call it a life-style statement.  So, yes, it is about diversity.

Hep me Hep me Hep me!  I lub you Nora---really (and yes, I’m groveling and sucking up)

I’m agreeing with you and others, and presenting the thesis that ---- that in the fight for respectability and validity in the public eye, Romance Writers (and Belly Dancers ;) ) have to be even more stringent and consistant in presenting a dignified and professional personna.

Registered Dietitians (I are one) like Accountants etc, having gained the rep as so extremely dignified to the point of anal that they could use a good skinny dipping party in the town fountain while wearing swan hats---- just to start.

:)

What is worse in regard to the romance genre receiving respect:

A photo of a swan on SK’s head in a highly circulated newspaper...or having some of the hateful comments to this post printed in the same publication?

There have been many valid, differing viewpoints, and this commentary has been nothing less than enlightening.  As a reader, I appreciate both sides that have been able to articulate their views with tact. 

But as a writer, it has been stomach acid inducing, and I feel awful for those on the receiving end of the over-the-top, hateful comments.

It is possible to be smart and bitchy without being hateful.

~So, yes, it is about diversity~

My comment was it’s not about comformity v diversity or creativity.

It’s not pin-striped suit v thigh highs.

It’s about finding what Lani so smartly called the sweet spot.

I’ve got a pair of green high tops myself--and no, I wouldn’t wear them to this event. But I wouldn’t have thought twice if someone had--if it suited her look. They’re not a costume.

On the respect issue - are we saying those authors who dress up are not being respectful to the genre as a whole? I’m asking because that’s how I read a few comments but I don’t want to generalize if I misunderstand.

I respect this genre and the hard work other authors put into their craft. I just find it hard to connect another author’s choice of clothing at an event where her books are also being signed as a sign of disrespect for everyone else or even the genre.

Maybe I’m missing something, help me understand if that’s the point being made.

Also, I’m not saying you, nora roberts is holding three people responsible for respectibility in romance (although the placement of that paragraph might seem that way), I’m saying I find the whole argument in holding these three people responsible (which has been made multiple times in this mamoth comment stream)to be extreme.

I missed the hateful comments myself.

There were a couple of misunderstandings, waaaaaaaaay up at the beginning, and a few extreme examples on both sides of the “fence” (if you will) but I honestly didn’t see the hate anywhere.

P.S.

It’s one thing for an author like Nora to voice her concerns over the face of an RWA event versus an RT event.  I understand that.

But the unbridled nastiness of some others is completely unprofessional.  And isn’t that what we’re all in an uproar about in the first place?  The way we appear to others?

Najida wrote:
**Registered Dietitians (I are one) like Accountants etc, having gained the rep as so extremely dignified to the point of anal that they could use a good skinny dipping party in the town fountain while wearing swan hats---- just to start.**

That would certainly draw attention away from romance writers...at least for a while.

“I missed the hateful comments myself.

There were a couple of misunderstandings, waaaaaaaaay up at the beginning, and a few extreme examples on both sides of the “fence” (if you will) but I honestly didn’t see the hate anywhere.”

I hope more people see this discourse the way you do. 

I’m obviously not going to point a finger, but I am surprised by the venom in some of the comments.

Unbridled nastiness?  Where?  If this is your idea of unbridled nastiness you have led an enviably charmed and protected life.

~On the respect issue - are we saying those authors who dress up are not being respectful to the genre as a whole? I’m asking because that’s how I read a few comments but I don’t want to generalize if I misunderstand.~

I’m saying--and I feel I’ve said it pretty clearly in any number of ways--that at a public, professional event, hosted by the RWA and attended by hundreds of other authors, at our organization’s biggest public event of the year, specifically, I feel it’s inappropriate to wear costumes. Cute costumes, stupid costumes, pretty costumes, dopey costumes. Costumes period. And I feel that it is one of the reasons we fail to get respect from the media and others outside our readerships. Because the media WILL focus on the costumes.

I didn’t say those authors didn’t respect the genre. I said that it’s only that much harder to get the respect I hear many, many readers and writers complaining we DON’T get, if we pander to the media this way. 

I don’t see this as a choice of clothing. Should I wear the suit, the jeans and leather jacket, the pretty summer dress, whatever. This was a deliberate choice of dressing in costume.

No one could possible call the big-ass swan hat clothing. Come on. And both the Manga girls have stated they chose to dress up Manga-style to gain attention for the line.

Agree or disagree with the opinion--costumes are not just clothes.

I must have missed the comments where anyone said these three women were responsible for holding up the respectibility of the entire genre.

“Unbridled nastiness?  Where?  If this is your idea of unbridled nastiness you have led an enviably charmed and protected life.”

Snort.  Maybe I have.  But I doubt it. ;)

When an author (not a reviewer) makes a direct comment toward an author in an online venue, but would never dare say such a thing to said author in person, I think that is nasty.  I’m not saying the the entire thread is caustic, but there are a few gems that stand out.  IMO.

And I’m really not trying to stir up sh*t.  This is just my take from reading this and related blog posts.