Categories: Ranty McRant
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by Candy • Wednesday, August 10, 2005 at 10:25 AM
Someone on one of the AAR messageboards has accused us Smart Bitches of having an anti-Christian slant.
Candy’s Take:
Confession time: Organized religions in general give me a mild case of the heebie-jeebies. Organized religions in particular that make a very stark distinction between the saved and unsaved, those who Got God and those who Don’t Got God, tend to give me even more heebie-jeebies. The latter claim I’m going to burn in Hell and/or am Satan’s minion for the lone fact that I don’t believe in the right deity, regardless of how good or bad a person I actually am; would you blame me for feeling just a teeny bit uncomfortable?
But the people who identify themselves as belonging to a certain religion? They’re such a varied bunch that I can’t make blanket judgments about them. It’d be impossible. As with anything else, I take ‘em on a case-by-case basis. If they deserve to be made fun of or taken to task, then I try to call it as I see it.
For example: A Christian pharmacist who won’t prescribe birth control to someone because he believes it’s “chemical abortion” is an asshole (as well as deserving of having his degree yanked--what kind of shit chemistry and biology classes did this motherfucker take?). The same pharmacist who does this AND refuses to return the prescription to the customer so she can fill it elsewhere is a super-duper, grade A, mecha-Streisand stupid asshole; the fact that the asshole’s opinions are informed by his religious values also makes him a religious asshole. That doesn’t change that he’s an asshole, first and foremost. He could be ANY religion. In this particular case, he was Christian. I’d call him a Christian asshole.
But some people insist on reading that as me calling all Christians, alla time, assholes.
So let me make this clear once and for all (even though I’ve said this many times before on this blog): Assholism is a major religion in and of itself, and its practicioners range far and wide. Assholism is oftentimes caused by fundamentalism: the belief that you have the inside line to God (or non-God, as the case may be), know what’s best and everyone else needs to live only according to your values. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Jainists, Zoroastrianists, Scientologists, Pagans, Worshippers of the Puckery Purple Men of Uranus, whatever--all of these have their share and then some of assholes.
I’ve said some inflammatory things on this blog before, but I’d like to know: were any of them attacking Christians and Christianity as a whole? I’d like to think I’m careful enough to make it clear that I’m usually talking about specific individuals or sub-groups, and not the Christian population as a whole.
There’s a difference between talking about the group, and talking about individuals. Perhaps we all need to learn to read more carefully when it comes to these sorts of statements?
Unless y’all want to argue that asshole fundamentalist Christians are the only true Christians around. I certainly don’t.
Now, if you want to talk about a group of people that us Bitches have consistently and ruthlessly attacked, I can tell you exactly who they are: Cover models. We’ve called them everything from child molesters to gym monkeys. If Fabio ever wants to take us to task for making unkind statements about him, he’d have a rock-solid case.
I seriously doubt you’d find the same level of hateration for Christians on this site.
Sarah’s Take: Since my blog was mentioned in that particular conversation over at AAR, I have been tempted to respond. But for the life of me I can’t figure out what I’m being called on the carpet for, there. It seems the complaint is that my strong feelings of Christianity might bleed...somewhere. Aside from the biohazardous nature of my alleged opinion, I have to wonder: Do I have strong feelings about Christianity?
Sure I do. I think that the teachings of Christ as depicted in the gospels are some damn fine code of human behavior, and a marvelous demonstration of fair ethics that everyone could do well to emulate.
Heck, you could say that because I liked those ethics of Jesus’ so much that I converted to Judaism in 1999. I used to be Christian, now I’m a homie of Christ. And last time I checked, Jesus was not down with harming other people in his name. Moreover, the tenets of Judaism and Christianity advocate for treating everyone with respect, honor and kindness.
So am I anti-Christian? No. Like Candy, I am anti-fundamentalist. I think the root word of “fundamentalism” is Mental, and that people who hurt others in the name of religion need some serious cans of whoopass cracked in their vicinity. I think ostracizing anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe is like revisiting 6th grade gym class every day of your life.
Furthermore, I do not have any problem with people who achieve peace and happiness through great devotion to their religion.
I do have a problem with people who, having achieved their own peace and devotion, seek to bend me to their will and force me to adopt their ways. If it works for you, great. But do not force your religion down my throat, even if it is my own. So I’m not going to hold your little Scientology cans in the middle of 42nd street, nor am I going to tie t’fillin (which I wouldn’t be asked to do anyway since I’m a girl and all), I’m not going to shake the lulav with you, and I’m not going to kneel and recite the rosary because you think I ought to do so.
I wonder if the root of the comments regarding our alleged anti-Christian bias lies in our personal dislike for inspirational romance. I personally do not enjoy it, because I feel that the underlying rhetoric of those few inspirational romances that I have read is that as a non-Christian, I am not saved. I find shades of the exclusive rhetoric that permeates orthodoxy of all religions in the structure of inspirational romance, and I feel that it does not apply nor appeal to me.
Do I rant and rave and yell that inspirationals should not be considered romance? No. I don’t care if RWA devotes an entire award to them; I know that personally, they are not my cup of holy water, so I’m going to find my romance elsewhere. But does disliking inspirational romance make me anti-Christian? No.
However, I refuse to change my opinion on man-titty.
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Categories: Ranty McRant
Categories: Ranty McRant
As a member of the Church of the Every-Day Man Titty I am offended and outraged. How dare you desecrate our Deity in such a callous and hurtful manner.
You haven’t heard the last of me!
Why does that AAR site tell me I’m forbidden to access it? Do they have an anti-atheist or anti-German filter? ;)
Aoife said on...Amen, sisters. Or something like that.
I think that fundamentalists of any stripe are scary as all get out. And I do wish they would get out. Anyone who is so convinced of the rightness of her beliefs that she is willing to ram them forcibly down my throat is probably related in spirit to those folks who brought us the Crusades, the Inquisition, various and assorted pogroms....sheesh, it’s too depressing to keep listing.
Man-titty, though...it’s really only *shaved and polished* man-titty that creeps me out
SB Sarah said on...NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH MAN TITTY! I mean, INQUISITION!
And you get a big “NI” from me, Sarah!
Tonda said on...Oh, my queens. I bow down before thee.
No, really, you ladies summed up EXACTLY how I feel about this issue. I can’t help it if the particular loonies that keep trying to muck up my life just happen to be white, Christian, and Republican. They just are. Not my fault that there’s a pattern there, or that I’m smart enough to have spotted it. And it doesn’t mean that I think ALL Christians are the same. My grandmother is a Christian, and hell, I still love her (but she’s not a Republican, so maybe that’s the difference?). >: )
-Tonda
Candy said on...Tonda: To be fair, there are Democrats who are equally retarded. Hillary Clinton has landed on my shit list for her incredibly retarded handling of the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas “OOOOOH PIXELLATED NEKKID PEOPLE HAVING SEX!” fiasco.
I mean, bitch, please. Get a grip. $90 fucking million to investigate video games? *headdesk headdesk headdesk*
And Gabriele: I have no idea why you can’t access the page. My first would be that your IP was banned for some reason? Anyone else having problems viewing the AAR page?
Heather said on...What Tonda said: “Oh, my queens. I bow down before thee.”
If we throw salt over our left shoulders at it, will the man titty go away?
In fact, I’ve never been able to access the site when a FM member linked to it in chat, so how could they have banned my IP if I wasn’t there in the first place? Also, I have no kids security settings or anything on my computer. Only possibility might be the firewall, but I’m not going to screw with that one just to read some posts.
Yours are more fun anyway.
foggybookgirl said on...Darn it all my smite button is out of order...there goes my plan to rebutt those remarks made on AAR. How “highly disheartening"…
In all seriousness (and I can do serious..no really I can). I’ve been lurking here for a while and I’ve never seen anything resembling an attack on Christians or Christianity as a whole.
I’m often glad that I in no way have anything to do with designing covers but that’s another nipple altogether...issue I meant issue darn man titty.
Seems to me you guys have created an equal opportunity snarkdom. No one is immune and that’s the point. Bad books, authors behaving badly, stupid covers and, yes, dumb religious ideas and ridiculous crap like the birth control thing are open to shots just like everything and everyone else.
And, not to be dumb but if people are so offended why read a site called Smart Bitches? Does the name of the blog not imply there may be some snark here? if you can’t stand the heat, stay away from the bitches. [I’ve been waiting forever to say that, btw.]
Gari said on...Gah! Let’s add fuel to the fire shall we? How about a Jewish cashier who won’t ring up your bacon or shrimp? Or a Christian Scientist who won’t dispense your Prozac or anti-depressants? Good grief, what’s next?
And, excuse me… but when did Christianity become above reproach? Did I miss a mandate that states that Christianity is not to be questioned and to leave all Christians and their views alone? SOOO Sorry, but I don’t like having your religious views shoved down my throat and last time I looked this was America - you know… “Land of the Free”.
SB Sarah - here’s another “Ni”!
Ummm… Aoife? Are you saying that you only like...ahem… “Hairy” man titty?
Gari - oh yeah, I’m Catholic, so don’t even go there.
Angela H said on...I’m new here. I think the site is fan-freakin’-tastic! Sarah and Candy hit the nail on the head. Religion in and of itself isn’t necessarily bad, it’s the my-way-or-the-highway attitude that sucks. Rock on, Bitches.
This particular subject is in my top three favorites - along with abortion and bastards who get away with offing their wife.
I could just go on and on and on....
But I won’t. Y’all are doing a might fine job already. Keep up the good work!
And Candy, I live under a rock. Hadn’t heard about the Hillary research bit. Do you think she’ll get the nomination for prez? On a female level, I think it’d be cool. On a political level, not so much. Mostly because I don’t think she can win, and it’s time for a change of party hats, I’m thinkin’.
Any Texans here? Kinky Friedman is running for governor. Dude’s got my vote. But then, I’d vote for Bozo against the current governor.
Boy, for somebody who always tries to be politically correct, I’m on a roll today.
Must be all this Christian talk.
Hummph. HelenKay said it best - if you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Stef
I am anti-fundamentalist. I think the root word of “fundamentalism” is Mental
Surely the root word of “fundamentalism” is “fundament”? Where I come from that is a polite term for where you would expect to find an asshole (actually we say “arse hole” but never mind.)
white raven said on...**whistles, applauds** *standing ovation*
Oh, Candy . . . I never said Grandma was a Democrat. Just that she wasn’t a Republican. *SMIRK* And Hilary should be bitch-slapped for a lot of stuff she’s come out with since being elected. As should my own Senator Feinstein.
My woodpile is filled with Libertarians, Peace and Freedomies (what the hell would they be called?), and Greens. Most of us think Democrats are merely Republicans that were spanked too many times as children.
-Tonda
emdee said on...Someone above mentioned that Christianity as it is written in the Bible is a fine code of ethics and I must agree. It’s all about love. Too bad that those who claim to champion it don’t live by its principles. Makes me wonder if they’ve ever read it or depend on others to interpret it for them. My spiritual beliefs or lack thereof are my own private business. My soul does not need saving, it’s doing just fine, thanks.
Maybe the original poster of that comment surfs the net all day long looking for people who don’t agree with them or who make statements that they find offensive. Me, I’ve got better things to do. Like living my life and doing my best to do no harm.
Robin said on...One of my favorite words in the English language is “radical” because it really means “root,” but we always use it when we want to propose something new (it’s like “revolution,” which has the same sort of tweaked connotation). I actually think it’s a word that could have an interesting conversation with fundamentalism, which it seems to me is often less about the roots and more about the branches (forgive the metaphor, but it seems to work really well with the religious imagery).
As for the Christianity discussion on AAR, I think it’s partly the result of the sound byte mentality, where people get snippets of conversations, posts, commentaries, etc. totally out of context and then react to them. I know I have to (sometimes physically) resstrain myself from getting bent out of shape over stuff that’s been excerpted to seem more inflammatory than it actually is.
Honestly, the folks who worry me more are those who keep saying we shouldn’t be talking about all of this, that anyone bugged by the RWA/RITA situation is “too sensitive” (like that’s not borne of a gender stereotype), and that Tara Taylor Quinn was being completely sincere and unaffected by mentioning her “newborn Down Syndrome nephew” at the beginning of her, well, whatever that thing was.
Gari: I wouldn’t say I like hairy man-titty, it just seems less like something that should have a piton with “Mt. Manly” protruding from the apex. Hope that clear things up, I wouldn’t like to go down in bitchdom as a man-titty lover.
I don’t have a problem with any religion, what I have a problem with is the fucking fruitcakes who label you an infidel because you wont join their particular club, and decry your right to live as you choose.
The strange fact is, in my life, the people who don’t follow any particular faith are the ones who live their lives according to the original teachings of the bible. They are usually the ones who are the least judgmental.
How does that work?
I went and checked out the AAR comments and, oh man, that kind of thing always has the power to drive me a little bit crazy. Making a blanket statement like “hostile towards the Christian point of view” and “specifically Smart Bitches...”, but then having nothing concrete to back it up -that puts me right round the bend.
I applaud you, Sarah and Candy, for being able to make a reasoned response.
Infidels! You’re all infidels! And you will burn in the fiery depths of hell whilst I cavort with one billion virgins!
Bwhahahah!
Meljean (who is never going to look at the link again because of that comment about Muslims thinking it’s fine and dandy to kill Jews and rob Christians and afraid she might go off half-cocked and ruin any chances of having a life or readers and having to come up with another psuedonym, but, really, how many times can someone factor out portions of their maiden name to come up with a psuedonym?)
Alexia said on...Dear God, please give us more man-titty and man-cameltoe on book covers so we can laugh.
Plus, can you work on making chocolate calorie free?
”
I know some people who identify themselves as fundamentalist Christians who are nothing but humble, kind, and non-judgmental people of a strong faith. I can respect their faith even though I don’t necessarily share it. Where it gets tough for me is where the notion of “fundamentalism” is used to distinguish and elevate one particular dogma in Christianity from others. I recently had to explain to someone that Catholics and Protestants were Christians, too, because her “fundamentalist” church taught her that they were the only ones who were teaching the Bible straight (with no interpretation) and that therefore they were the true Christians. Does that church speak for all fundamentalist Christians—no way. Unfortunately, though, just like with feminism, some of the very vocal and very extreme figures on the right have, IMO, hijacked Christianity as a faith and have converted it into a political and social movement that aims at narrowing the separation between Church and State. Although I don’t identify as part of organized Christianity, I agree with Sarah that that “the teachings of Christ as depicted in the gospels are some damn fine code of human behavior, and a marvelous demonstration of fair ethics that everyone could do well to emulate.” And I respect people of deep spiritual faith who practice the respect and acceptance of others pretty much every major religion espouses. What I think would be great is if we could get to a place where we could distinguish the spiritual beliefs and practices within religions from political, national, social, and other forms of dogma that, IMO, seem to have found a home in both churches and government offices.
Yeah, Meljean! Why do your kind hate Christians and Jews so much?
(I avoided replying to that message only by biting very, very hard on my fingers because woo damn, there is not enough time and breath and energy in the world to ‘splain away that kind of idiocy.)
I wanna be Robin when I grow up.
With a bit o’ Candy thrown in for good measure.
Stef
Usually, I don’t even bother responding to anything on the AAR board but this just hits my hot button, so now that I’ve had my say over there, I’m going to bed before my hubby starts growling at me.
If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much.—Donald Rumsfeld
Might I ask a tiny question? What happened to our tough and crunchy outer skins? I was asleep when we developed exoskeletons and all started wearing our organs outside our bodies. Don’t say bad things about me because I’m a Christian! One of the Marginalized 70+ percent. It hurts my heart when you call me a rigid, AquaNet wearing SUV humper.
Can’t we all just hold hands? Be nice? Pleasant? Homogenized and sanitized? Minty breathed and FDS fresh?
As for that poor Christian lady over at AAR who feels the persecution radiating from the Internets, well I weep for her. The thought of her sitting in her sun room staring at her Precious Moments dolls and her hard back copies of the Left Behind series and getting a little misty eyed makes me want to be better. Kinder. Gentler.
As a Modified Catholic whose father used to holler, “Eat a little Jesus for me” as he booted my ass out of the car in front of church, I have to wonder where the humor has gone. I still break into giggles when the priest or one of his henchmen intones “Body of Christ” during the Eucharist. I salute my father, who might very well be in hell if there is one… probably having the time of his afterlife.
My personal beliefs are a tangle of life experiences that I would never expect anyone to understand, and would never expect anyone to follow. I don’t vote my religion, I don’t have any friends in my church (not just because the median age is 90), and I have never in my life told anyone that Jesus loves them… mostly because I suspect he doesn’t.
I visit the bitches because I’ve gotten some laughs and a few good reads. I enjoy the posts and the comments, the discussions are real and people seem to have their heads on straight. That’s all I ask. And y’all deliver. Insult me all you want. Deliver an epistle on Bad Catholics who Never Get What They Order in Most Restaurants. I can take it!
God and Consequences had a damn fine link today to an article at SOMA ‘The Most Famous Christian of the 20th Century?‘, it’s a chilling agenda that seems to be repeating itself in our lifetime.
Don’t agree with me? Schools, homosexuals, moral decay the litany sounds eerily familiar.
X
Robyn said on...Y’all know I’m a church girl; I’m almost afraid to even join in this discussion.
I’m a very vocal white, conservative, Republican Christian, but I’ve never felt persecuted on these boards. And I don’t come for political or religious discussions, anyway. Why would I go to any board with Bitches in the title and then yell that they didn’t act like church ladies? It’s like suing Hooters for sexual discrimination. “I thought they were talking about owls! Honest!”
Yes, sometimes I get all ‘heavy-sigh’ when I know my opinion is in the minority. But I have never felt unwelcome here, and even though you may not agree with me on some things, I feel as if you respect me. I hope I do the same for you.
And to the poster who feels persecuted: DON’T READ THOSE BOARDS, SISTER!! Geez, it’s not rocket science, is it?
Stef! Kinky rocks!!! and so do the smart bitches. Well said ladies.
Robyn - you are so welcome here. We aren’t going to harsh on you for your politics or your religion, because even though we might be on opposite sides of the spectrum on some issues, we’re both outspoken, “vocal” women who stand up for ourselves.
And if there’s one thing Smart Bitches understand and respect, it’s fellow Smart Bitches!
A fellow Kinkster fan! Go Cece!
And for anyone who has no clue what we’re talking about, here’s a website to check out Mr. Friedman.
And hey, if that was bad netiquette, I apologize in advance. But I just LOVE this guy.
Stef, who figures since he’s a writer before he’s a candidate for governor of Texas, maybe it’s okay
This month’s Harper’s has a great article on American Christianity—the disconnect between what passes as Christianity in the USA and Christ’s actual teachings.
Gawd, that sounds so serious. Would it lighten things up a bit if I told you I was writing this with my naked hairy man titties exposed to the breeze? No camel toe, however. I was never that gifted :down:
Sarah and Candy, you are evil. Evil I say! I was raised Southern Baptist, and I know just seeing the words Jesus and man-titty in the same sentence is going to send me straight to Hell!
In fact, I’m sure the lightning will strike any moment.
Sincerely
Soon to be a crispy critter
SandyO
CindyS said on...Amen!
Assholes come in many flavours (can’t believe I just wrote that!) so yeah, I respect other people’s beliefs and hope they can do the same for me. Those who take the ‘higher’ ground believing that they get the right to make decisions for others need to get out of the way or go live alone somewhere. (I haven’t gone to the link for the pharmacist yet but I hope the chick jumped the counter and gave him a severe paper cut!)
CindyS
Doug Hoffman...yeah, dude, you. I just went over to your blog and read a few and I’m howling.
You’re righteous!
the lobster...the Bluestar...my GOD man, you should be writing books.
(don’t tell me you already have some out, or I’m gonna be real embarrassed.)
And by the way, I only know 3 male romance writers, personally anyway, and none of the above are gay. At all. Go for it - you’re a nice boy. You could write some nice romance. I’m bettin’ you could also write some very awesome romance. And here’s a hint - a lot of women like reading the male point of view.
But maybe it’s because it’s male pov written by a woman. Hmm. Candy, Sarah, any chance you guys would like to comment about that?
Stef, who’s now gone completely off-topic
Forgot to say - I woulda posted over there on your blog, Doc Hoffman, but I don’t like to cheat on Candy and Sarah. Besides, I don’t read blogs. I only come here for the intellectual discussions of litchratchure.
And sometimes, when I’m desperately procrastinating, I click on people’s names and see what they have to say in their world…
Oh lawd. Methinks if y’all don’t stay off AAR, with its contingent of far right romance readers (RRR) y’all might stroke out.
It’s not good for my high blood pressure either, I’m telling ya.
Hooray for Smart Bitches! Thanks for putting into words what so many of us feel.
You go Candy & SB Sarah. Kudos to Robin for her post on fundamentalism. Remind me to tell you all about the time I was told Catholics aren’t Christian.
Thanks for the linkage to Harpers & kinky Friedman too.
my GOD man, you should be writing books.
Doug is writing books. SciFi stuff with a romance between a 10 foot intelligent tarantula and a 6 foot spider, with a giant parakeet bandit and a not so happy parakeet family, a religious zealot (who get his ass whipped), lots of intrigue and some fun poking against the modern US culture. Not published so far (except for a few short stories) but I bet he will be one day.
“I wanna be Robin when I grow up.”
Oh, that’s just mean, Stef :) (no, really, thanks for the compliment, though; I don’t get them all that often). Really, though, no one wants to be me right now, especially me. I know I’m whining but I have only one week of freedom left before I have to return to the wretched hell that is law school (which is basically like high school on steroids). Why no one thought to stop me after the doctorate I don’t know—could it be the prospect of free legal work? Oh, sure, I’ll put your trust together for you . . .
I have often been accused of being anti-Christian (the fact that I have a religion weblog might have something to do with it) but really, it’s just because statistically Christians are in the news doing awful things in the name of their religion much more than anyone else. That could just be because I’m getting my news from BBC & CNN rather than Al-Jazeerah, though.
I agree with Candy: the religion of Assholishness knoweth no bounds. People are capable of being assholes no matter what religion they follow. It’s just that people who get fundamentalist about religion have a much higher index of assholishness. Something about fundamentalism breeds contemptuous assholishness.
I saw nothing in your comments to make me think you’re anti-Christian, Bitches. When you called the RWA on the carpet for the fundie subtext in their awards ceremony, you did so quite rightfully; you disagreed with how they used the message, not with Christianity itself.
But in the end… well, screw the other message board. They gave you some free publicity, and if they don’t have fine enough pixellation to see that you were calling the RWA board and award ceremony on the carpet and not Christianity… well, my friends, you can legislate against asshole behavior (why else do we have the whole legal code?) and you can legislate the separation of church and state. But lo, my friends, thou cannot get rid of all the stupidity in the world.
PS: If there was a Church of Man-Titty, what would the church look like?
“Oh lawd. Methinks if y’all don’t stay off AAR, with its contingent of far right romance readers (RRR) y’all might stroke out.”
Okay, here’s the weird thing—I was told that AARers are not taken at all seriously in the larger Romance publishing arena, precisely becuase they are too critical and analytical, too demanding in terms of the “quality” of books, and out of touch with the broader priorities of the industry—in other words, not at all the “average” Romance reader, who, from what I’ve been led to believe, is far more conservative than the AARer. Although it was never put this way, the implication was that AAR readers were actually much more liberal than most Romance readers. So what’s the deal, anyone know???
Those of you that like pirates really need to check out the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion as an alternative to “Intelligent” Design. Please let me know if his noodlyness or meatitude appears on any book covers.
Robyn: You’re welcome here. Please don’t ever feel nervous about speaking up, and don’t ever be afraid to let us know when we’re talking straight out of our asses. Non-assholes are always welcome here.
Well, except for me. I’m an asshole, and I’m always welcome by virtue of being one of the site admins. MWAHAHAHA.
“I wanna be Robin when I grow up.
With a bit o’ Candy thrown in for good measure.”
Heh, I wanna be Robin when I grow up, too. I go off all half-cocked, then I read one of her well-reasoned responses, and I feel like banging my head on my desk and going “Goddammit, all of youse, just go read what Robin wrote, she said it better than I ever could and without any cussing.” But given my case of terminal immaturity (I was giggling with Meljean last night about how the ‘tard kid throw-down between Timmy ["TIMMEH!"] and Jimmy ["I’m h-handic-c-capable!"] on South Park was one of the funniest damn things ever) I’m afraid I’ll never grow up.
“Oh lawd. Methinks if y’all don’t stay off AAR, with its contingent of far right romance readers (RRR) y’all might stroke out.”
Actually, Monica, you were mentioned as one of the anti-Christian blogs. Which is funny, because, ummm, I thought you were Christian. Maybe you’re a self-hating Christian?
And Doug DOES have a fabulous blog, doesn’t he? If you haven’t yet, check out the man-titty story. It’s worth it just for the graphics. Another new favorite of mine is Stephen Bowden’s blog, Wenlock.
“Those of you that like pirates really need to check out the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion as an alternative to “Intelligent” Design.”
I was touched by SOMEONE’s noodly appendage last night.
And I now feel a strange, overwhelming urge to shop for pirate regalia.
Hmmmm.
Oh, you guys rock like always.
The only thing I have to add is to not take this fake-persecution nonsense too seriously. “Chrisitans” bitching about how left out and abused they are usually are the same “Christians” who are yawning chasms of unfulfillment. Really, do happy people need to kvetch like that?
You are so much more than they will ever be. Even if they were something, they’d be too busy whining and checking the perimeter to enjoy it.
As someone who reads more often than she posts, I hesitate to stick my head up out of my burrow, but, in fairness to the folks over at AAR, my impression over the last few months is that when one of the nutcases goes on a rampage the majority of regular posters hunker down, and wait for all the crap to pass on by. Hmmm. Perhaps not quite the visual image I had intended.
And, I would like to volunteer to help plan Lilith’s Church of Man-Titty (or, Temple of Man-Titty is catchier). I’m visualising something massive, with a large marble dome, and a statue of Fabio in the narthex. All very tasteful, of course.
Actually, Monica, you were mentioned as one of the anti-Christian blogs. Which is funny, because, ummm, I thought you were Christian. Maybe you’re a self-hating Christian?
I was mentioned at AAR. I swear I don’t believe it. But if I was mentioned at all (near miracle) I know it would have to be some negative crap. My blog is anti-Christian?
Yep, Candy, last thing I knew I was Christian and baptized too.
Ah, Monica. You’re anti-Christian. I’m anti-RWA. Anyone who dares question the methods/motivations/goals of those who wield power in the executive branch is PLAINLY anti-American.
Don’t you know a true believer/member/patriot NEVER discusses the flaws in the system, especially in public? Those aren’t DEAD FLIES in your rice pudding--they’re RAISINS. Now EAT UP, dammit, and don’t forget to smile.
Okay, that’s pretty disjointed, and I don’t even care.
I couldn’t resist. I had to go and see where my blog was mentioned on AAR.
Don’t those extremist sort of Christians ever read the Bible and see how hard He was on those Pharisee types? I guess not.
Then I posted at AAR and promptly ran away.
“Noodly appendage” :lol:
Please. Stop. I can’t take anymore. Crap on Rye my stomach hurts! And I keep getting weird looks from my co-workers. I’m trying not to break out into hysterical laughter and it’s NOT pretty.
Damn I love you people.
Gari
And I now feel a strange, overwhelming urge to shop for pirate regalia.
Ok, ok, when I’ve finished my Roman Empire books, I will write that Pirates on the Baltic Sea book.
:coolsmirk: (we need a pirate smiley)
Yummy- pirates!!But I digress.
I just waded through all of the crap on the thread at AAR & suddenly a jingle started looping through my head,
“Gimmie a break, gimmie a break..”
The evangelical persecution complex is old, people.
Bonus points for naming the product the jingle is from.
Also- can we have a display of swords in the Temple of Man Titty?
Angela H said on...Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat Bar!
Also- can we have a display of swords in the Temple of Man Titty?
Hmmm. Metal swords, or swords of the *whispers* fleshy, manly variety?
We’re all so ending up in Hell. :cheese:
I know that. I’m waiting in Level 6 for y’all to catch up.
Hey, you’r eviler than me, I’m only in 5. *sniff*
Did anybody else read the SF romance that had the heroine declaring the hero wasn’t the king because “you have not yet pierced me with your fleshblade!”
Sorry. All the talk about swords. But I won’t go to hell- I’ll just repent and be forgiven. :cheese:
I only made level 2!! :gulp: How did that happen?
On the other hand, I spent a good portion of the day introducing friends and relations to The Flying Spaghetti Monster. (And September 19 is National Talk Like a Pirate Day. Is that the Pentecost to the Church of his Noodly Appendage?)
Delurking because I can’t resist anymore. First, Robin, I can’t believe you went back to Law School! Such courage! No kidding the first year is like high school, except the people are even more annoying. But 2nd and 3rd years are way better (I conclude this from sitting in on classes and teaching law students, not being one).
AAR is really a trainwreck these days. I just posted an apology for contributing to the thread (of course it included snarking about a previous post). Following up on Robin’s question, I went and looked at the RWA and AAR surveys, and there are some pretty significant differences, so I’m not surprised AAR is considered unrepresentative. Its readers read far more books than the RWA respondents and like categories and romantic suspense less. They are more educated and appear to be both more liberal and more likely to live in big cities. But while they’re outnumbered, there’s definitely a group among the respondents who are both socially and economically conservative, and I assume they’re the ones who get excited whenever religious and moral issues come up, or threads can be driven in that direction. The AAR survey is not a scientific sample, but it seems representative of the regulars who post.
Oh, in case you couldn’t tell, I don’t post often over there but when I do it’s to provide Boring And Unwanted Data. Robin’s one of the few who responds positively.
This is a great site. I don’t always agree, but I always check in. Your commenters are so smart, and unlike many at AAR, they can spell.
And now I know how to recognize man-titty when I see it and use it in a sentence.
Sunita
Uh, that’s use the term man-titty in a sentence, not the actual man-titty. In case it wasn’t clear.
“First, Robin, I can’t believe you went back to Law School! Such courage! No kidding the first year is like high school, except the people are even more annoying. But 2nd and 3rd years are way better (I conclude this from sitting in on classes and teaching law students, not being one).”
It’s going to sound crazy, Sunita, but I did it BECAUSE of threads like the one on AAR that Laurie finally shut down. That and I feel like every day is a fight to protect academic freedom and free speech on our campuses and universities. But boy the first year almost pummeled me into the ground—and don’t even get me started on my fellow classmates; I mean, I know I’m older than almost all of them, but OMG there were days I couldn’t believe what I had done by sticking myself in the middle of all that. Actually, I go to school near where you spend your summers (cause I’m such a frickin’ snob about where I get my degrees—which I really need to work on, except this is going to be it or someone will be given orders to restrain me physically from ever being a student again—in anything!). Anyway, I needed reminding today why I was going back for year 2 (level 9 of Dante’s inferno, no doubt), and that whole thread reminded me. As to your posts on AAR, I love ‘em so keep ‘em coming! I mean, where else can we talk about rape, Romance, and cultural hybridization??!
“Heh, I wanna be Robin when I grow up, too. I go off all half-cocked, then I read one of her well-reasoned responses, and I feel like banging my head on my desk and going ‘Goddammit, all of youse, just go read what Robin wrote, she said it better than I ever could and without any cussing.’”
Okay, but you gotta remember a couple of things: first, I’ve usually had the benefit of reading yours and other posts before I figure out what I want to say; I write (and occasionally think) for a freakin’ living (such as it is); I have waaaaayyyyyy more education than any sane person would pursue, so I need to do something with it; and I’m practicing for the day I’ll be defending all of you cussers from the powers that want to chokechain free speech on the Internet (and in education, and in public venues, and in . . .). And believe me, they’re mounting their arguments and readying their weaponry. And it’s gonna be fuckin’ ugly.
Good luck, Robin.
With some of the things going on in the US, I’m really glad I live in Germany (and there were times I hated tha country).
I have no idea what religion my neighbours follow and none has ever asked me about mine, the town majors of both Hamburg and Berlin as well as the leader of the Liberals are gay (imagine the town majors of NYC and Washington and the Democrat leader to be gay, lol), the word Creationism was unknown to me until I came across it on the net, and getting an abortion - let alone contraception pills - isn’t much of an issue.
6th level… well howdy Candy. Nice neighbourhood.
X
Any one else make it to level 3- glutton?! My waistline is evidence.
Re: Temple of Man Titty- *bangs fists on pew* ‘Real, live fleshy swords, of course’ or maybe pink plastic ones in homage to the new story being written by Candy.
Huh. So I took this test and I’m a little concerned. I scored a 7. Hmm. I wonder if this means I should start going to church again.
Doug “Level Five” Hoffman here, looking down his hateful nose at all you eeevil level sixers.
I have a nominee for Pope of the Divine Church of the Man Titty: Doctor Octopus from Spiderman Two. If you’ve seen the movie, you know what I mean. He could also double as Chief Hierophant of the Temple of the Spare Tire.
I tried to find an appropriate image to link to, but none of ‘em show Doc Oc’s rack. :mad:
Amanda, that image. :bug:
I’m not going to paint my 11th century Norman style bastard sword pink. :)
Hi Doug, we’re company. I scored level 5, too.
But leave those tarantulas at home.
Hey Gabriele,
Now I’ll have to go back and try to figure out which sins we have in common ;o)
“True Or False: A pimp is a good thing to be.”
(Little Doug: “Mom? Will you teach me how to bitch slap?")
Doug, the “homoerotical undertones” - I write them and you detect them.
I wonder if I scored a 7 because I said True to “Some people just deserve killing”. Hmm.
Or is it the being intimate with persons of the same sex that did it…
Don’t worry, Bam. At least we have more fun here (and in Hell) than people on that AAR forum. ;-P
Gabriele,
I have to agree with you on that. I don’t ever visit the message boards on AAR, because I never have anything to say, but it sounds like I’m not missing much. In fact, it sounds like a scary place
They might not welcome a heathen like me, anyway. At least here, I know I’m welcome, right, guys?
I know AAR only from hearesay, my firewall seems to block the site. Or they block my German IR because they think we’re all child-sacrifying pagans anyway. :-)
7? Bam I bow before you.. truly you are evilest.
X
It’s because I’m a bisexual sociopath, Christine, nothing to it.
“I don’t ever visit the message boards on AAR, because I never have anything to say, but it sounds like I’m not missing much. In fact, it sounds like a scary place”
Actually, the AAR boards are the site of some of the most interesting discussions around. The only reason I don’t visit them is because I don’t have enough friggin’ hours in the day.
The few posts I’ve linked to here are not necessarily representative of the usual content on the messageboards. Yeah, there are some kooks there, but that’s sort of the unavoidable consequence of having a public messageboard on a site as big and popular as AAR.
Bam, but then only the gay half of you will end up in hell, the hetero half can go to heaven. :cheese:
“I don’t ever visit the message boards on AAR, because I never have anything to say, but it sounds like I’m not missing much. In fact, it sounds like a scary place”
AAR is mainly only scary to me, a black author. We rarely, if ever, darken AAR hallowed boards. The readers rarely read us and never discuss us, unless we do a dye job and become Brockmann or Samuels.
They discuss other romance and mainstream, but I do believe it is very much a non-black book board and non-black romance isn’t my reading preference.
I tend to like fantasy and paranormal romance of all types.
Umm… but I’m still welcome here, right? ;)
Sure Bam, both halves.
Michelle, the Diva said on...“I’m a very vocal white, conservative, Republican Christian, but I’ve never felt persecuted on these boards.”
Amen to that, Robin!
I simply can’t subject myself to any more milksop-heroed, virginal heroine-ed, nonexistent plot of the ultimate level of boredom inspirational romances. Not. Gonna. Do. It. Ever. Again.
Real characters and real people have sex *gasp* and occasional heaving bosoms make their appearances - I’ve been married for more than 10 years and *gasp* have had some hoo-damn lovely sex meself...heck, I’d say often.
Methinks that the grumpy/uptight/pissy-mooded so-called Christians might be in a little better mood if’n they read something with a little bite to it, something not so bland. I have a hard time with the IR Stepford People because I can’t relate to them - AT ALL.
Holy craparoni, anyone ever read the Bible? I mean, we’re talking lust, murder, vengeance, greed, fratricide, and a whole host of other stuff.
I don’t seem to remember Jesus crying about persecution every time anyone spoke to/about Him. And if anyone had the right to be complaining, it was Him! His own town rejected Him, the Jewish people rejected Him, and the world at large rejects Him even to this day.
It just make me sad that some so-called “Christians” have nothing better to do than to whup up on (mostly) innocent bystanders. You’d think that there’s enough trouble/trauma in the world without adding to it.
*big sigh* The ranting portion of this message is now concluded.
Me, personally, I think fundamentalism comes from fear. All those people are afraid that they really DON’T have all the answers. But if they can talk you into believing, too, maybe they’re right after all.
Me? I’m fundamentally opposed to man titty.
I’m going to say my prayers tonight and beg for deliverance!
ps: I’m a librarian. I can’t refuse to buy stuff for my library because I personally don’t like it. I’d get fired! Why those pharmacists don’t is beyond my comprehension… what a load of #%@T%*(^
Damn, I want to be Candy and Sarah when I grow up!
Someone posted about your site on my board, so I had to come over and take a look, and I just completely fell in love with what Candy and Sarah had to say about religion that I am going to use part of Candy’s definition of assholism in my sig line from time to time. It’s just too perfect NOT to!
About 4 years ago, I had a run-in with the AAR site ... they gave Nora Roberts an “f” grade on a review to “teach her a lesson” because of Nora’s writing style (changing POVs--often more than once--on the same page!).
One thing led to another, and a really whacked-out member of AAR came over to my site and started an out-and-out flame-war with Nora!
I had to LMBFAO when I saw Laurie continuing to claim (and I’m paraphrasing here) that her site “only gave Tara Taylor Quinn nothing but good/great reviews” on her books ... as if that meant that TTQ was “OKAY.”
Puh-lease.
I don’t think there’s a site that is more full of itself than AAR.
How’s that for being snarky and bitchy? :coolsmirk:
And because I’m feeling totally snarky and bitchy, I have to say that I think it’s way cool that you can say what you want, how you want--without fear of being taken to *task*--which happens to me far too often by some of the right-wing, ultra-conservative, and/or censorship freaks I have at my site. (If I had a $ for every time someone whined or cried about someone [ususally ME!] being mean to them ... :roll: )
In fact, I’m sure some of them are reading this right now--and their blood pressure is a rising. :-)
AAR is mainly only scary to me, a black author. We rarely, if ever, darken AAR hallowed boards. The readers rarely read us and never discuss us, unless we do a dye job and become Brockmann or Samuels.
They discuss other romance and mainstream, but I do believe it is very much a non-black book board and non-black romance isn’t my reading preference.
-----------------------------
Two months ago Monica Jackson was offered the opportunity to be the AAR monthly author interview for July. The invitation was extended in order to give her the opportunity to air at our site for our readers the many concerns she freely airs elsehwere. The invitation was made publicly on her blog. She did not respond in any way.
And, as a few others have said, it is the conservative posters who feel they are outnumbered at AAR. They don’t believe they are the norm.
As an AAR staffer, I don’t feel that my views on politics or religion have squat to do with romance and revealing my views would seem all too much like sucking up to the posters here. I ain’t gonna do it.
Sandy AAR
ADWOFF,
The next time AAR staffers get accused of being in Nora’s pocket which happens just about every time she earns a DIK (twice last year alone), we’ll be sure to send them to you to set them straight. Thanks for taking the heat off us there!
And the person you’re talking about was many things, but a “member of AAR” she wasn’t. She was a poster—a notorious poster.
DIK? I have no idea what that means.
And FWIW, Nora doesn’t need to be in anyone’s pocket ... she does just fine all on her own.
In fact, just what you said confirms what *I* think is the biggest problem at AAR—the “self-importance” is incredible ... the idea that everyone is hanging on your site’s every word ... that what is said in reviews there “make or break” an author.
Puh-lease.
Ironically, the notorious poster you speak of--her name was Sandy, too. Seeing “Sandy AAR” gave me a bit of pause. :-P
Alas, I’m only in Limbo. I need to get seriously eviler.
Two months ago Monica Jackson was offered the opportunity to be the AAR monthly author interview for July. The invitation was extended in order to give her the opportunity to air at our site for our readers the many concerns she freely airs elsehwere. The invitation was made publicly on her blog. She did not respond in any way.
Did you not receive my e-mail, Sandy? I wrote that I wished you’d extend your invite to some other black romance authors for the time being. My reasoning was that I knew the owner and others connected to AAR had some antipathy toward me because I criticized Gold and the site.
Many regulars on the board at that time also were very abusive towards me, seemingly for fun, since I wasn’t responding.
So, I didn’t feel up to taking on something that had the small chance of beoming a bigger deal because of my history with AAR.
I thought exposure to other black authors would be more useful and less divisive.
If you can’t find that e-mail, let me know and I’ll resend.
Monica Jackson was offered the opportunity to be the AAR monthly author interview for July. The invitation was extended in order to give her the opportunity to air at our site for our readers the many concerns she freely airs elsehwere.
I freely air my views on my own blog, and I invite all to come and read them. You cna do a search for AAR in the box on the sidebar. Romance in Black & White is a good place to start.
As far going to AAR and freely airing my views. . . Sheesh, that’s like showing up for your own lynching and diving into the mob like a rock star does off the stage. Are you kidding me?
No, Monica, I didn’t get your email.
Here’s the letter sent 6/17/05 at 11:32. I didn’t state my reasons so exactly as I did above and I made some other suggestions for interview material. . .
Hello Sandy,
Thanks for your offer, but I’m reluctant to be the first. There’s that kid at Little Rock thing that I’m just too worn out for and primarily, there are other black authors with a larger black romance readership. I’m probably about the most nontraditional and different black author out there as far as my romance, and my readers tend to be a little more different and diverse also.
Brenda Jackson, who I guess I could compare in some ways to Lori Foster has a huge black romance readership. Rochelle Alers is also a traditional romance writer. Shirley Hailstock has tremendous leadership skills. Donna Hill writes woman fiction, but I know she is also going to write for the new black Harlequin line as are all the authors I just mentioned previously. The new black Harlequin line is an interesting topic (the new covers are wonderful), as are all of the new lines and changes at Harlequin. I know that I’d enjoy reading an article about the SPICE and NEXT lines too. And I’d break my neck to get to an article about the Luna line.
I also want to mention Francis Ray, who has written a number of black cowboy novels and has great universal appeal. Felicia Mason has written books with white characters, and a good number of excellent romances, but she now does primarily write inspirationals for Steeple Hill.
Warm regards,
Monica
You are all reading way too much into the actual motives of why your entertaining and thought-provoking blog has been called “anti-Christian.”
It’s because you say “fuck.”
Fuck, is that all? Well, ok then.
And I’m giving the keynote address in hell, so I’ll make sure you all get upgraded. No worries. I got backstage passes!
“Actually, the AAR boards are the site of some of the most interesting discussions around.”
I agree, Candy. Sometimes things do get off track, and I completely agree with Sunita’s speculation on some of the conservative/liberal dynamics over there. I know I’ve gotten so frustrated I’ve taken the bait on a couple of occasions, because there’s a point at which I can’t take it any more and don’t care about being reasonable or understanding of everyone’s point of view. But really, I’ve seen and participated in some of the most interesting and comprehensive discussions over there. And let’s face it; I feel more at home in a less conservative discussion environment.
“DIK? I have no idea what that means.”
It means Desert Island Keeper, and relatively few books get this review, since it’s awfully close to an unqualified recommendation. And just to show that everyone has a different opinion, I’ve often felt that there is a strong and clear adoration for Nora Roberts among many AAR posters, to the point where it’s sometimes difficult to talk about certain aspects of the books without some posters viewing those questions or comments as criticism requiring an overt defense of Nora. All of us have those authors we feel define greatness, and Nora has a large share of fans who feel this way about her at AAR—at least from what I’ve seen posted about her books.
“So, I didn’t feel up to taking on something that had the small chance of beoming a bigger deal because of my history with AAR.”
You know, Monica, I have absolutely no idea what your relationship with AAR is or has been, but I do know there are a lot of us over there who have been whining about the lack of diversity in the industry, and who are always looking for something more, something different. Through this site, I’ve been introduced to you and several other authors who have broadened my reading horizons, and I know there are other posters at AAR who would be happy to see more perspectives on the board. I absolutely do know, though, that in the posting format it’s very easy to be misunderstood and to find yourself trying to clarify your position beyond anything you could have imagined. And as someone who was likened to a mem
08.10.05 at 11:54 AM |