Smart Bitches Trashy Books | All of the romance, none of the bullshit.

Although I noticed exactly the problem you articulated with SY, it didn’t bother me as much as it did you UNTIL I read your review.  You’re absolutely right; the sexual control is a MAJOR flaw in an otherwise shallow but somewhat enjoyable story. 

I think Kleypas actually could have used the sexual domination/conflict avoidance device to the book’s advantage, using it to consciously mark a power struggle between Amanda and Jack, thereby giving them a real obstacle in their relationship rather than the weak (and somewhat tired) ones they had instead.  Especially since the sexual control-as-avoidance aspect of Jack’s personality speaks of an insecurity I don’t think Kleypas wants to explore or even suggest in the book as written.  Now I understand a little better why I was really bugged by the way Amanda, despite her intelligence, tenacity, and pragmatism is constantly brought to heel by Jack’s sexual prowess, especially since she is the far more interesting character.  If Kleypas had chosen to explore the issue of Jack’s sexual domination of Amanda (rather than using the tired device of the heroine chipping through the hero’s “calcified heart"), the book would not have been so lighthearted, but IMO a more interesting read.  As it’s written, though, and as you talk about it, the sexual control thing does really undermine a lot of the intelligence and independence of Amanda’s character, thereby empowering a far less interesting and complex hero (and a lot of otherwise stereotypical plot devices).

Oh, well; one more reason I believe the Schonesque direction her books began to take with SY weakened her character development and plotting.  I know a lot of people hated Secrets of A Summer Night, but that book was a welcome change for me, becuase at least it seemed to be about something (the death of the aristocracy and the rise of industrialism in Victorian England).

This is funny to me because I read this book quite a while ago, and what I remember of it was that it didn’t leave me with my happy little Gee, that was a great romance sigh at the end.  I couldn’t figure out why - and I’m not necessarily agreeing, simply because I just don’t remember enough of the details.  Too bad I’ve already given the book away, as my curiosity is piqued.

Question from the techno-challenged: In white spaces, I’m assuming spoilers, how does one read what you’ve written and ‘hidden’?  Have I missed the boat entirely?

Stef

Stef, just click at the first part of the white space and scroll down to the bottom. This essentially highlights the space and allows the text to be visible.

As for Suddenly You, I have the book but haven’t read it yet. I guess I won’t be in too much of a hurry to do so.

Hmm...Secrets of a SUmmer Night and Suddenly You are the only Kleypas books I have and I haven’t read them yet.  Should I try something else to try her out the first time?

I think that plot was from an Amanda Quick book?  Damn this is going to bug the hell out of me.

Mmm, a) WTF was Kleypas thinking throwing something as completely un-escapist-fantasy, un-romantic, un-goddamn-I-don’t-want-to-relive-THAT-experience-again into a novel that women, including mothers and women who’ve miscarried, may read? There’s this whole “establish and protect your reader’s trust” thing that I thought was important to romance authors, but whoa did she ream the concept of reader trust with a massive pole. And b) did she even do the tiniest bit of research into the after-effects of a miscarriage? Hello, 3-4 weeks of blood & tissue loss, doctor’s-orders no-sex-or-tampons. Mmm yum, that’s erotic - and what a tender and solicitous hero, who needs doctor’s orders, sanitation, physical or mental health.

Funny how easily authors can land on the “Never will buy” list.

“Mmm, a) WTF was Kleypas thinking throwing something as completely un-escapist-fantasy, un-romantic, un-goddamn-I-don’t-want-to-relive-THAT-experience-again into a novel that women, including mothers and women who’ve miscarried, may read?”

I practically forgot the miscarriage part of the book, because it’s less than 20 pages from the event itself to the end of the book, and quite a few of those pages are the horrid oral scene Sarah referred to in her review (I checked the book to see).  I don’t know whether Kleypas couldn’t decide whether to go lighter or darker with the book and ended up with a bit of each, or whether the way she structured the plot forced her into the miscarriage device, but in general, she handles it with very little depth and basically uses it (along with the sexual domination thing) to convince Amanda that Jack really does love her.  And for whatever darker elements are in the book (Jack’s horrible childhood, the miscarriage, the sudden jilting of the decent suitor), the book doesn’t seem to be written with a whole lot of seriousness, at least to me.

Maybe she thought that since she didn’t go into great detail and dwell upon the tragedy for lengthy duration, it was acceptable. Not sure, haven’t (and won’t) read the book to give it a fair evaluation. But in general it sounds like she didn’t know what she was talking about regarding any aspect. Sexual domination doesn’t create or force trust, it evolves from trust--otherwise, it’s rape and emotional abuse & manipulation. Likewise, it doesn’t replace conversation or respect of an individual’s emotional needs.

Candy would’ve been hearing that book-against-wall sound accurately, Sarah, and probably not just a little bit of horrified shock mixed in with the outrage. I checked Kleypas’ credentials, since I don’t know anything about her, and she’s no newbie--you’d think someone with 16 books under her belt wouldn’t have made that kind of a writerly mistake. Then again, you’d also think readers would’ve expressed shock at the content before now too--and maybe they have, but I don’t frequent any review sites but this one.

Also - earlier, I mentioned this discussion and that oral sex scene to my ex, whose response was “that’s rape.” If a man can recognize it…

I haven’t read the book either. But it seems to me that sexual domination in books is one thing - it may not float everyone’s boat, but it does float some peoples’, and stuff that actually would not be at all a good thing in real life can be arousing when safely on the printed page in fantasyland, for those that are wired that way. I wouldn’t mind the “I’m bigger than you” bit at all. But the miscarriage bit - no, no, no. I’ve never had a miscarriage, but I’ve seen enough of the deep grief it’s caused many of my friends that, as others have said, it would shake me right out of that pleasant pink trance back into the real world. I think that including such a scene was a cruel mistake. There are some things that just don’t belong in women’s escapist literature, and the loss of a child, at any stage, is one of them. It’s something too powerful to use lightly.

A friend of mine miscarried and she was absolutely devastated. For months, she was like the walking dead with this “dead fish” look in her eyes. She wouldn’t even let her husband touch her. She made him sleep in the other room.

I haven’t read “Suddenly You,” but now, I don’t want to. When I read about the oral sex scene, I was absolutely horrified. If the heroine were saying, “no! no! I’m not ready!” to the hero before he “went to town”, that’s so totally rape, it’s not even funny.

“Maybe she thought that since she didn’t go into great detail and dwell upon the tragedy for lengthy duration, it was acceptable. Not sure, haven’t (and won’t) read the book to give it a fair evaluation. But in general it sounds like she didn’t know what she was talking about regarding any aspect. Sexual domination doesn’t create or force trust, it evolves from trust--otherwise, it’s rape and emotional abuse & manipulation. Likewise, it doesn’t replace conversation or respect of an individual’s emotional needs.”

In general, Kleypas is a writer I trust, and IMO, at least, the “domination” was not aggressive or authoritarian, as much as playful (at least I think this is how Kleypas was writing it).  I have real problems with some of Linda Howard’s alpha males (don’t even get me started on Dream Man) because they seem no more than Romanticized bullies, and I wouldn’t put Jack Devlin in that category at all.  I guess I’d say it’s a gentle domination, albeit an avoidance and an overtaking of Amanda’s will. I actually think Kleypas was using it to boost the sensuality rating of the book and to show self-proclaimed plain Amanda (and the reader) that she was utterly yummy to Jack.

I’ve generally thought of Kleypas as a sensitive and conscientious writer (wasn’t she among the first to write the non-aristocratic hero?).  So really, the insensitivity is anomalous here, at least to me.  Frankly, my biggest complaint about her books is that many don’t stick with me all that long after I read them. Then Came You, Dreaming of You, and Where Dreams Begin, and Secrets of a Summer Night are some of my favorite Kleypas books, and I’d recommend them to Kleypas newbies.  I also have a lot of respect for Kleypas because her actual prose writing skills have improved by leaps and bounds over the years.  When I read the title of SY, I wondered if she was making fun of herself for using “suddenly” so often in earlier books. Probably not, though.

When I read that bit in SUDDENLY YOU, I admit I was uncomfortable. The fruit? I laughed my head off because it’s so silly. That eased tension.

did she even do the tiniest bit of research into the after-effects of a miscarriage? Hello, 3-4 weeks of blood & tissue loss, doctor’s-orders no-sex-or-tampons. Mmm yum, that’s erotic - and what a tender and solicitous hero, who needs doctor’s orders, sanitation, physical or mental health.

In fairness, there are two things to consider: a) the after-effects vary from one woman to another [my first doesn’t fit your description as we discovered during a scan the mite was gone, and my second fits your description], and b) Victorian-era doctors would know this?

Fuck, *my* doctor didn’t tell me, not even after I had the D&C of the first. So it depends.

But with the hero’s actions? Fair point.  He’s not insensitive, just thick-headed. :)

Hmm, I hadn’t realized it wasn’t a contemporary romance, so you’ve a fair point on Victorian-era doctors and medical knowledge.

I had forgotten about the Worst Oral Sex Scene ever when I wrote my Kleypas Lightning Reviews. I’ll have to go back and knock it down a grade. And while Sarah’s right about the way Jack handled a lot of the issues, like Robin, I interpreted Kleypas trying to show how Jack finds Amanda completely nummy and irresistible. It wasn’t until the last oral sex scene that my jaw dropped and I said “WHAT THE FUCK?”

Dear Candy,
Don’t be dissin’ my Jack and Amanda.  We might have to tho down!

I love, love, loved so much of the book that I just ignored the parts that annoyed me.

And I could forgive my Lisa K. just about anything (except time traveling Russians having sex with their grandmothers).

Speaking as someone who has had a miscarriage, yes that scene is VERY squicky for me. I don’t hate the book, but I reread very carefully.

awwwww, this review made me sad, as I actually loved this book and I reread it quite frequently.  Although I do understand some of the critques made, I thought that Kleypas wrote a different historical romance that played with the conventional aspects of the genre.  I think the miscarriage was an important part of the book not because she lost the baby, but because Amanda wasn’t all dependant upon Jack to help her heal, but she pushed him away and retreated within herself, in this, I thought Kleypas dealt with her grief very well.  It also made their relationship stronger and displayed that they were not just married and in a relationship because she found out that she was pregnant, but because they loved each other. 
I also didn’t get the rape vibe from the scene where he gives her oral sex, but mainly because I didn’t really take their comments seriously, I just thought it was sarcastic amusing banter, and it sounds way less dominating in my head when I imagine him saying things jokingly than when I reread it with a serious connotation.  I can totally see how it can be taken that way though, upon rereading it.
I also loved that Kleypas played with the idea of the hero being mistaken for a man who works as a prostitute, instead of the heroine (which happens ALL THE TIME!!) and that he was the younger man but it didnt turn into a creepy oedipal-thing, it was almost a non issue in the book until she found out at the end.
Anyway, I just wanted to add in my own two cents because I actually really love this book and am a HUGE Kleypas fan!
thanks guys!

p.s. oh and I TOTALLY agree with you NancyJ about the time travelling russian bit--what WAS that??? I actually skipped that whole part in the book and pretended it didnt exist.....I think I also just forgive Lisa for everything....